4 ms·

Misguided priority IMO. Silicon Valley's actions are much more egregiously and obviously criminal than even the worst gym. As tough to cancel as some gym membe

Misguided priority IMO. Silicon Valley's actions are much more egregiously and obviously criminal than even the worst gym. As tough to cancel as some gym memberships are, they at least usually spell out their precise cancellation procedure as a part of a contract and have multiple ways to get in touch with some human to deal with a situation. And there's always some path to cancel the service (even if it's annoying by design and has you jumping through multiple hoops). And with these gyms, as a last resort you at least have a chargeback as a fairly realistic option with no consequences to your life. What I'd like to see investigated in this vein is Silicon Valley companies who provide no human customer service. Your only recourse in the event of a flawed transaction is either suck it up and take the loss, or do a chargeback and risk having your entire digital life destroyed as they retaliate against you by locking up your account. What these companies do to people daily is criminal on a level that the worst gym can't even fathom.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
The FTC can do more than one thing at a time.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  [flagged]
SkyMarshal 4y ago
On the flip side it’s actual useful to have no human customer service in at least domain - mobile service. For example, it’s much more difficult to sim swap a Google Voice number than a T-mobile number, in part b/c it removes social engineering of customer service as an attack vector.
CogitoCogito 4y ago
> And there's always some path to cancel the service (even if it's annoying by design and has you jumping through multiple hoops). Why do they even get to dictate how you cancel? You should just be able to send them a letter, an email, go in and inform them, etc. What purpose does it serve for society for companies themselves to be able decide to ignore your cancellation requests unless they follow a specific procedure?
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  Is this the hill you really want to fight for in life? If a gym offers an email address, real life support, and/or a phone number to cancel, are you going to be intensely morally outraged that you can't send a physical letter to cancel as well? Doesn't it seem reasonable for businesses to (for the most part) pick and choose how they conduct business and deal with their customers, so long as they're not committing fraud or other crimes? Isn't the point of the law to protect people from crimes? Is the point of the law to dictate the tiny minute details of everyday life?
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    > If a gym offers an email address, real life support, and/or a phone number to cancel, are you going to be intensely morally outraged that you can't send a physical letter to cancel as well? I think you misunderstood the parent comment: > You should just be able to send them a letter, an email, go in and inform them That's a "you should" statement. The simple fact is, you can't cancel by just sending a letter, e-mail, or just going into the gym. Usually, you have to fill out their form and send it as a registered mail to some corporate office that will likely completely ignore it for another month or two and keep charging you. If you can join a gym by just showing up or creating an account online, then you should be able to cancel online or by just showing up and telling them to cancel. > Doesn't it seem reasonable for businesses to [...] Yes, but doesn't it seem shitty the way gyms operate? Fuck off with your "BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR" and just answer THAT question. The problem is that every gym operates this way. Going to a competitor isn't an option.
    - CogitoCogito 4y ago
      Actually I think /u/logicalmonster really did basically understand me correctly. I just kind of ignored the post because it was weirdly hysteric while acting like I was the hysteric one (e.g. "Is this the hill you really want to fight for in life?"). My point was really just that there should be a few standard simple ways that all businesses _must_ accept for the ending of contracts. /u/logicalmonster seems to think there is value in allowing businesses to not honor such requests because it is "reasonable for businesses to (for the most part) pick and choose how they conduct business". I disagree. I see no value in such a policy and think that my recommendations would make for better economic value.
pjc50 4y ago
Why not both?

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

The FTC can do more than one thing at a time.

logicalmonster 4y ago
[flagged]

SkyMarshal 4y ago

On the flip side it’s actual useful to have no human customer service in at least domain - mobile service. For example, it’s much more difficult to sim swap a Google Voice number than a T-mobile number, in part b/c it removes social engineering of customer service as an attack vector.

CogitoCogito 4y ago

> And there's always some path to cancel the service (even if it's annoying by design and has you jumping through multiple hoops). Why do they even get to dictate how you cancel? You should just be able to send them a letter, an email, go in and inform them, etc. What purpose does it serve for society for companies themselves to be able decide to ignore your cancellation requests unless they follow a specific procedure?

logicalmonster 4y ago
Is this the hill you really want to fight for in life? If a gym offers an email address, real life support, and/or a phone number to cancel, are you going to be intensely morally outraged that you can't send a physical letter to cancel as well? Doesn't it seem reasonable for businesses to (for the most part) pick and choose how they conduct business and deal with their customers, so long as they're not committing fraud or other crimes? Isn't the point of the law to protect people from crimes? Is the point of the law to dictate the tiny minute details of everyday life?
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  > If a gym offers an email address, real life support, and/or a phone number to cancel, are you going to be intensely morally outraged that you can't send a physical letter to cancel as well? I think you misunderstood the parent comment: > You should just be able to send them a letter, an email, go in and inform them That's a "you should" statement. The simple fact is, you can't cancel by just sending a letter, e-mail, or just going into the gym. Usually, you have to fill out their form and send it as a registered mail to some corporate office that will likely completely ignore it for another month or two and keep charging you. If you can join a gym by just showing up or creating an account online, then you should be able to cancel online or by just showing up and telling them to cancel. > Doesn't it seem reasonable for businesses to [...] Yes, but doesn't it seem shitty the way gyms operate? Fuck off with your "BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR" and just answer THAT question. The problem is that every gym operates this way. Going to a competitor isn't an option.
  - CogitoCogito 4y ago
    Actually I think /u/logicalmonster really did basically understand me correctly. I just kind of ignored the post because it was weirdly hysteric while acting like I was the hysteric one (e.g. "Is this the hill you really want to fight for in life?"). My point was really just that there should be a few standard simple ways that all businesses _must_ accept for the ending of contracts. /u/logicalmonster seems to think there is value in allowing businesses to not honor such requests because it is "reasonable for businesses to (for the most part) pick and choose how they conduct business". I disagree. I see no value in such a policy and think that my recommendations would make for better economic value.

pjc50 4y ago

Why not both?