4 ms·

This is a good bill, but I’m not really sure why the government thinks they should be free. On Amazon now you can get them as cheap as a quarter each. Surely a

This is a good bill, but I’m not really sure why the government thinks they should be free. On Amazon now you can get them as cheap as a quarter each. Surely a bubble gum style vending machine and selling them at cost (or quarter or less) would be possible as well? I think I’m mainly jaded of the government giving away things and the generally negative outcomes it creates sometimes.

scubbo 4y ago
> I’m not really sure why the government thinks they should be free. Why do you think they shouldn't be? > I think I’m mainly jaded of the government giving away things and the generally negative outcomes it creates sometimes. What are your predicted bad outcomes of more-freely available condoms?
- endisneigh 4y ago
  The question isn’t why they shouldn’t. The question is why they should. Free for instance means over consumption and waste. Either it will be at the schools discretion, which is bad, or bad actors will take everything resulting in some not having access to a condom until a refill. Cheap is better than free imho
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scubbo 4y ago
    > bad actors will take everything resulting in some not having access to a condom until a refill It must be extraordinarily scary to live with such suspicion and paranoia.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  The delinquents at my high school commonly repurposed Condoms as balloons and had them laying around the school as a prank. And condoms were never free at my school. Just blow them up with your breath, tie up the ends and watch people get disgusted as you leave them around. I mean, yeah, delinquents are gonna be a pain in any case but free anything is just asking for trouble.
  - ortusdux 4y ago
    These sound like kids that are not mature enough to be parents.
    - Fatnino 4y ago
      Good thing they have access to condoms.
mrleinad 4y ago
Low cost, high return, seems to be the strategy here. It really costs next to nothing, and prevents both teen pregnancies and STDs.
neap24 4y ago
Yes. This is a better wording of the point I was making in a comment below—which somehow everyone is criticizing as “males need to share in the responsibility”. Putting that aside as a separate debate, I am worried about unintended consequences as well as the generally small effect size when the price of all birth control is so cheap these days.
ortusdux 4y ago
Condoms are a frequently shoplifted item. I think it's safe to say that people that cannot afford them need them the most.
- dguest 4y ago
  They are also awkward for a 14 year old to buy.
kstrauser 4y ago
I want there to be as little impediment as possible to teens practicing safer sex.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  How many condoms is acceptable for one to take at once? Regardless of the number, unless it is infinity, who are you, or me to decide? The issue with free is it puts no cost to taking more than necessary, so inevitably people will take more than necessary. You can’t realistically stock an infinite amount so the end result is temporary shortages.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    Worked out fine for my college. The free condoms were amazing for students at a time when the prices in retail were absolutely insane and many of us didnt have disposable income.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      well with college you already have to pay so the situation is different. and I'm sure the free condoms were not always available, which is effectively the issue here.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Say you run a summer camp for kids. Goal: you want all the kids to stay hydrated. Your options are 1) to have set times when everyone has to lineup to get a water bottle, or 2) have a bunch of water bottles available at all times for anyone to come take when they want. Option 2 works pretty well since kids know when they are thirsty. (Obviously. Otherwise the kids would all die of thirst under option 1 as well) A strange phenomenon emerges however when you start with option 1 and then halfway through the summer another counselor attempts to implement option 2. The kids have been preconditioned to expect that they NEED to get a bottle when the bottles are available or they won't have access to water later. It takes some time for the kids to figure out that the waterbottles are now available at all times and they don't need to carry one around all the time "just in case". Till then you have a small riot around the cases of water bottles for a few mornings. Option 2 distributes the water in a more efficient manner. The kids who spend time playing soccer will take more water than the kids who stay inside playing chess. This is my own experience as that other counselor. You can work out the analogy, I'm sure.
dguest 4y ago
How much does a vending machine cost? Would you even make your money back? Also it's a pain to install, and would likely be placed somewhere central where everyone sees you using it.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  all of those points would be valid even if it were free
mabbo 4y ago
The barrier isn't the financial cost. It's the social stigma. You have to walk up to that machine, where others can see you, and purchase it. People talk, maybe your parents find out, etc. I grew up in a super conservative area- the only way I bought condoms was by being the clerk at the gas station and buying it when literally no one was around. Because that was the only way. But if everyone gets handed them handed out for free, well, there's no stigma because everyone has them. And the cost to the government is peanuts compared to the cost of all the teenage pregnancies by kids who sure as heck can't afford to raise kids.
JohnTHaller 4y ago
In addition to the social stigma mentioned by others, easy availability is a key factor as well. When I was an RA in college, condoms were available for free from our health center. In addition, RAs also got condoms to give out as needed and we stocked them nightly in our RA office by the front entrance. I let everybody know they could ask for them anytime, privately and without any conversation aside from could I get protection, here ya go, thank you, sure thing. The occasional late night wake-up was worth ensuring folks were safe.

scubbo 4y ago

> I’m not really sure why the government thinks they should be free. Why do you think they shouldn't be? > I think I’m mainly jaded of the government giving away things and the generally negative outcomes it creates sometimes. What are your predicted bad outcomes of more-freely available condoms?

endisneigh 4y ago
The question isn’t why they shouldn’t. The question is why they should. Free for instance means over consumption and waste. Either it will be at the schools discretion, which is bad, or bad actors will take everything resulting in some not having access to a condom until a refill. Cheap is better than free imho
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scubbo 4y ago
  > bad actors will take everything resulting in some not having access to a condom until a refill It must be extraordinarily scary to live with such suspicion and paranoia.
dragontamer 4y ago
The delinquents at my high school commonly repurposed Condoms as balloons and had them laying around the school as a prank. And condoms were never free at my school. Just blow them up with your breath, tie up the ends and watch people get disgusted as you leave them around. I mean, yeah, delinquents are gonna be a pain in any case but free anything is just asking for trouble.
- ortusdux 4y ago
  These sound like kids that are not mature enough to be parents.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Good thing they have access to condoms.

mrleinad 4y ago

Low cost, high return, seems to be the strategy here. It really costs next to nothing, and prevents both teen pregnancies and STDs.

neap24 4y ago

Yes. This is a better wording of the point I was making in a comment below—which somehow everyone is criticizing as “males need to share in the responsibility”. Putting that aside as a separate debate, I am worried about unintended consequences as well as the generally small effect size when the price of all birth control is so cheap these days.

ortusdux 4y ago

Condoms are a frequently shoplifted item. I think it's safe to say that people that cannot afford them need them the most.

dguest 4y ago
They are also awkward for a 14 year old to buy.

kstrauser 4y ago

I want there to be as little impediment as possible to teens practicing safer sex.

endisneigh 4y ago
How many condoms is acceptable for one to take at once? Regardless of the number, unless it is infinity, who are you, or me to decide? The issue with free is it puts no cost to taking more than necessary, so inevitably people will take more than necessary. You can’t realistically stock an infinite amount so the end result is temporary shortages.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  Worked out fine for my college. The free condoms were amazing for students at a time when the prices in retail were absolutely insane and many of us didnt have disposable income.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    well with college you already have to pay so the situation is different. and I'm sure the free condoms were not always available, which is effectively the issue here.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Say you run a summer camp for kids. Goal: you want all the kids to stay hydrated. Your options are 1) to have set times when everyone has to lineup to get a water bottle, or 2) have a bunch of water bottles available at all times for anyone to come take when they want. Option 2 works pretty well since kids know when they are thirsty. (Obviously. Otherwise the kids would all die of thirst under option 1 as well) A strange phenomenon emerges however when you start with option 1 and then halfway through the summer another counselor attempts to implement option 2. The kids have been preconditioned to expect that they NEED to get a bottle when the bottles are available or they won't have access to water later. It takes some time for the kids to figure out that the waterbottles are now available at all times and they don't need to carry one around all the time "just in case". Till then you have a small riot around the cases of water bottles for a few mornings. Option 2 distributes the water in a more efficient manner. The kids who spend time playing soccer will take more water than the kids who stay inside playing chess. This is my own experience as that other counselor. You can work out the analogy, I'm sure.

dguest 4y ago

How much does a vending machine cost? Would you even make your money back? Also it's a pain to install, and would likely be placed somewhere central where everyone sees you using it.

endisneigh 4y ago
all of those points would be valid even if it were free

mabbo 4y ago

The barrier isn't the financial cost. It's the social stigma. You have to walk up to that machine, where others can see you, and purchase it. People talk, maybe your parents find out, etc. I grew up in a super conservative area- the only way I bought condoms was by being the clerk at the gas station and buying it when literally no one was around. Because that was the only way. But if everyone gets handed them handed out for free, well, there's no stigma because everyone has them. And the cost to the government is peanuts compared to the cost of all the teenage pregnancies by kids who sure as heck can't afford to raise kids.

JohnTHaller 4y ago

In addition to the social stigma mentioned by others, easy availability is a key factor as well. When I was an RA in college, condoms were available for free from our health center. In addition, RAs also got condoms to give out as needed and we stocked them nightly in our RA office by the front entrance. I let everybody know they could ask for them anytime, privately and without any conversation aside from could I get protection, here ya go, thank you, sure thing. The occasional late night wake-up was worth ensuring folks were safe.