6 ms·

It's only more terrifying when you cross it with the idea that around 50% of the population already can't separate real from fake on the internet

bena 4y ago
Bonsai Kitten, a website that purported to be reviving the lost art of shoving cats in glass jars, had more than one person complaining to remove the site.
- neilv 4y ago
  When Bonsai Kitten first happened (over 20 years ago), my concern was that it might inspire people to abuse animals. (We've all heard of children torturing animals, especially cats. I don't know why that happens, but planting ideas or making light of it doesn't seem like a great idea.)
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    one of my favorite examples of this was Minecraft and Parrots, In the initial release of parrots you could feed them cookies. People complained that this would teach children it's OK to feed parrots cookies which would actually kill them. Rightfully so impressionable minds and all that. (Even though in my 40's I log ridiculous hours in minecraft) Minecraft patched out feeding parrots cookies and it now kills them in game too. Problem solved, children learn a better lesson.
    - doublepg23 4y ago
      But will punching trees give you wood?
      - playerm1 4y ago
        If you're into that kind of thing, I guess.
- YellOh 4y ago
  I haven't heard of Bonsai Kitten, but your description made me think of the (sadly banned) r/DogDiet
dredmorbius 4y ago
I've been reflecting on the reality of adult literacy and technical proficiency, and what implications those have for a host of advanced-technology-mediated activities, from basic life skills and commerce to informed democracy. See: - "Adult Literacy in the United States (2019)" <https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp> HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29734146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29734146> - "Skills Matter: Further Results from the Survey of Adult Skills" a 2016 OECD report based on research conducted in 2011--12 and 2014--15 involving 215,942 adults: <https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_9789264258051-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926...> NNGroup (Jakob Nielsen) writeup, "The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think" <https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/> For both, the high-ability group is a small set (~15% for overall literacy, 5--10% for technical literacy) at the population level. Note that this is highly consistent across multiple countries and does not seem to indicate a particular lack of ability amongst American residents. (Though the US literacy study does show a marked decline especially of non-native English speakers near the Southern border.) This is sometimes described as the Lake Wobegon Effect (or perhaps "Lake Wobegon Fallacy"), which is to say that you can't exit a general population cognitive limit by assuming "all the children are above average" (from the late NPR radio programme "A Prairie Home Companion"). We're going to have to address the coming, and/or present, highly-contaminated epistemic environment with the population and skills we have, not those we'd prefer, to borrow from another sentiment.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > We're going to have to address the coming, and/or present, highly-contaminated epistemic environment with the population and skills we have, not those we'd prefer, to borrow from another sentiment. For the last decade or so I've become increasingly worried that the open Internet and broad-franchise democracy may simply be, inevitably, incompatible, no matter what we might wish were the case, and that we're guaranteed to lose one or the other (or, potentially, both).
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
bentcorner 4y ago
More than once it's crossed my mind that I have personally encountered a very very very small slice of the real world, and anything outside of that observed on the internet could very well be a fabrication. I base my belief in what I see online on cross-checking, general trust-worthiness of sources I encounter, and my gut feeling for the difficulty of faking something, but there's nothing stopping a determined adversary from inserting things into my perceived reality. A sufficiently advanced AI could be generating the internet on the fly just for me and I wouldn't be any the wiser.
- StrangeATractor 4y ago
  Isn't this the basis for some gen-z conspiracy theory?
  - kjs3 4y ago
    I think the "we're the ones living in the Matrix" meme predates gen-z.
  - doublepg23 4y ago
    “Dead internet theory” but 80% of it is schizo-ramblings that obscures the broader idea.

bena 4y ago

Bonsai Kitten, a website that purported to be reviving the lost art of shoving cats in glass jars, had more than one person complaining to remove the site.

neilv 4y ago
When Bonsai Kitten first happened (over 20 years ago), my concern was that it might inspire people to abuse animals. (We've all heard of children torturing animals, especially cats. I don't know why that happens, but planting ideas or making light of it doesn't seem like a great idea.)
- jeffwask 4y ago
  one of my favorite examples of this was Minecraft and Parrots, In the initial release of parrots you could feed them cookies. People complained that this would teach children it's OK to feed parrots cookies which would actually kill them. Rightfully so impressionable minds and all that. (Even though in my 40's I log ridiculous hours in minecraft) Minecraft patched out feeding parrots cookies and it now kills them in game too. Problem solved, children learn a better lesson.
  - doublepg23 4y ago
    But will punching trees give you wood?
    - playerm1 4y ago
      If you're into that kind of thing, I guess.
YellOh 4y ago
I haven't heard of Bonsai Kitten, but your description made me think of the (sadly banned) r/DogDiet

dredmorbius 4y ago

I've been reflecting on the reality of adult literacy and technical proficiency, and what implications those have for a host of advanced-technology-mediated activities, from basic life skills and commerce to informed democracy. See: - "Adult Literacy in the United States (2019)" <https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp> HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29734146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29734146> - "Skills Matter: Further Results from the Survey of Adult Skills" a 2016 OECD report based on research conducted in 2011--12 and 2014--15 involving 215,942 adults: <https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_9789264258051-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-matter_978926...> NNGroup (Jakob Nielsen) writeup, "The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think" <https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/> For both, the high-ability group is a small set (~15% for overall literacy, 5--10% for technical literacy) at the population level. Note that this is highly consistent across multiple countries and does not seem to indicate a particular lack of ability amongst American residents. (Though the US literacy study does show a marked decline especially of non-native English speakers near the Southern border.) This is sometimes described as the Lake Wobegon Effect (or perhaps "Lake Wobegon Fallacy"), which is to say that you can't exit a general population cognitive limit by assuming "all the children are above average" (from the late NPR radio programme "A Prairie Home Companion"). We're going to have to address the coming, and/or present, highly-contaminated epistemic environment with the population and skills we have, not those we'd prefer, to borrow from another sentiment.

yamtaddle 4y ago
> We're going to have to address the coming, and/or present, highly-contaminated epistemic environment with the population and skills we have, not those we'd prefer, to borrow from another sentiment. For the last decade or so I've become increasingly worried that the open Internet and broad-franchise democracy may simply be, inevitably, incompatible, no matter what we might wish were the case, and that we're guaranteed to lose one or the other (or, potentially, both).
- dredmorbius 4y ago

bentcorner 4y ago

More than once it's crossed my mind that I have personally encountered a very very very small slice of the real world, and anything outside of that observed on the internet could very well be a fabrication. I base my belief in what I see online on cross-checking, general trust-worthiness of sources I encounter, and my gut feeling for the difficulty of faking something, but there's nothing stopping a determined adversary from inserting things into my perceived reality. A sufficiently advanced AI could be generating the internet on the fly just for me and I wouldn't be any the wiser.

StrangeATractor 4y ago
Isn't this the basis for some gen-z conspiracy theory?
- kjs3 4y ago
  I think the "we're the ones living in the Matrix" meme predates gen-z.
- doublepg23 4y ago
  “Dead internet theory” but 80% of it is schizo-ramblings that obscures the broader idea.