5 ms·

And just like capitalism was better than feudalism which was better than what came before it, capitalism has been inching towards its end game and we need a bet

And just like capitalism was better than feudalism which was better than what came before it, capitalism has been inching towards its end game and we need a better system that works for all citizens rather than the few who have the capital to capture rents

Joker_vD 4y ago
Careful there; you sound almost like one of those silly German guys who moved to England in the middle of the XIX century.
phpisthebest 4y ago
[flagged]
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > > capitalism has been inching towards its end game > 100% incorrect, Most of the western world has been moving AWAY from free markets Capitalism does not equal free markets.
- afiori 4y ago
  For all the good properties that a free market has it is not a stable property game-theory wise. Unless a god-emperor intervenes to prevent (natural) monopolies and unfair competition free markets are bound to degenerate at least a bit.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Free Markets make a free and fair society. Citation needed. The robber Barrons of the 19th century and companies like Standard Oil needed no help from regulators to become oppressive monopolies and rent seekers. No corporation wants to operate in a truly competitive market and will use any means available to become a monopoly and exert pricing power. Sometimes that means buying up all your competition or driving them out of business by "dumping" products on the market below cost for a while. Other times it means subverting regulators to erect barriers to competition. At least with regulatory capture you have some ability to influence the politicians involved. What influence does a single consumer have on a Standard Oil style monopoly?
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >>The robber Barrons of the 19th century and companies like Standard Oil needed no help from regulators to become oppressive monopolies and rent seekers. yes, yes they in fact did. Far from being an era of laissez-faire, the late 19th century was dominated by a class of rich parasites, just like the modern economy. The freed market, without all these distortions and giveaways, is truly an equalizing force. [1] A truly free market without subsidized security, regulation, and arbitration imposes costs on large scale aggregations of assets that quickly deplete them… It may be that libertarianism, taken to its logical conclusion, is far more egalitarian and redistributionist than we ever dreamed – not as a function of any central State, but rather due to its lack. [2] Even in the 19th century the corporation was a legal entity chartered by the State. Corporations benefit from an arsenal of privileges, such as personhood and limited liability, which serve to set the rules of the market on terms favorable to corporate investors and managers. Obviously, limited liability is a fiat subsidy to corporate investors The imbalance of responsibility this enables cannot be underestimated, for it goes to the very heart of corporate economic behavior. [2] [1] https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085 [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20100330222751/anarchywithoutbombs.com/2010/03/13/let-the-free-market-eat-the-rich/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100330222751/anarchywithoutbom...
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Do you think markets can exist without regulations? I think you're failing to acknowledge that without regulation, it's far easier for violent monopolies to control everything Do you honestly think that without government saying that corporations can't do violence that they would all get along in happy lovey dovey fairy tale land? No, they would absolutely have their own standing armies. We need regulation to even have markets otherwise we go back to feudalism
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I am not ready to go full AnCap... but I believe Governments role in society is as a Night Watchman, to prevent violence, fraud, and physical abuse (i.e murder, property theft etc) I would even go as far as expanding the Lockean proviso to its natural conclusion in the establishment of a Single Tax system around natural resources / property i.e Geolibertianism In short I believe government should be about 1/10 or even 1/20th of the size we have today. Total government expenditure in the US (State Local and Federal) should be no more than 15-18% of GDP, today federal alone is over 25 approaching 30%
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      The problem is that corporations will take every single advantage that isn't explicitly denied to them at the cost of consumers and citizens in general, that's why we have and need regulations to protect the environment and make sure that corporations don't completely destroy ecosystems for profit. But we can see that they do anyways, they just go to countries without the regulations and destroy the environment there

Joker_vD 4y ago

Careful there; you sound almost like one of those silly German guys who moved to England in the middle of the XIX century.

phpisthebest 4y ago

[flagged]

yamtaddle 4y ago
> > capitalism has been inching towards its end game > 100% incorrect, Most of the western world has been moving AWAY from free markets Capitalism does not equal free markets.
afiori 4y ago
For all the good properties that a free market has it is not a stable property game-theory wise. Unless a god-emperor intervenes to prevent (natural) monopolies and unfair competition free markets are bound to degenerate at least a bit.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> Free Markets make a free and fair society. Citation needed. The robber Barrons of the 19th century and companies like Standard Oil needed no help from regulators to become oppressive monopolies and rent seekers. No corporation wants to operate in a truly competitive market and will use any means available to become a monopoly and exert pricing power. Sometimes that means buying up all your competition or driving them out of business by "dumping" products on the market below cost for a while. Other times it means subverting regulators to erect barriers to competition. At least with regulatory capture you have some ability to influence the politicians involved. What influence does a single consumer have on a Standard Oil style monopoly?
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>The robber Barrons of the 19th century and companies like Standard Oil needed no help from regulators to become oppressive monopolies and rent seekers. yes, yes they in fact did. Far from being an era of laissez-faire, the late 19th century was dominated by a class of rich parasites, just like the modern economy. The freed market, without all these distortions and giveaways, is truly an equalizing force. [1] A truly free market without subsidized security, regulation, and arbitration imposes costs on large scale aggregations of assets that quickly deplete them… It may be that libertarianism, taken to its logical conclusion, is far more egalitarian and redistributionist than we ever dreamed – not as a function of any central State, but rather due to its lack. [2] Even in the 19th century the corporation was a legal entity chartered by the State. Corporations benefit from an arsenal of privileges, such as personhood and limited liability, which serve to set the rules of the market on terms favorable to corporate investors and managers. Obviously, limited liability is a fiat subsidy to corporate investors The imbalance of responsibility this enables cannot be underestimated, for it goes to the very heart of corporate economic behavior. [2] [1] https://c4ss.org/content/30085 https://c4ss.org/content/30085 [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20100330222751/anarchywithoutbombs.com/2010/03/13/let-the-free-market-eat-the-rich/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100330222751/anarchywithoutbom...
kevviiinn 4y ago
Do you think markets can exist without regulations? I think you're failing to acknowledge that without regulation, it's far easier for violent monopolies to control everything Do you honestly think that without government saying that corporations can't do violence that they would all get along in happy lovey dovey fairy tale land? No, they would absolutely have their own standing armies. We need regulation to even have markets otherwise we go back to feudalism
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  I am not ready to go full AnCap... but I believe Governments role in society is as a Night Watchman, to prevent violence, fraud, and physical abuse (i.e murder, property theft etc) I would even go as far as expanding the Lockean proviso to its natural conclusion in the establishment of a Single Tax system around natural resources / property i.e Geolibertianism In short I believe government should be about 1/10 or even 1/20th of the size we have today. Total government expenditure in the US (State Local and Federal) should be no more than 15-18% of GDP, today federal alone is over 25 approaching 30%
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    The problem is that corporations will take every single advantage that isn't explicitly denied to them at the cost of consumers and citizens in general, that's why we have and need regulations to protect the environment and make sure that corporations don't completely destroy ecosystems for profit. But we can see that they do anyways, they just go to countries without the regulations and destroy the environment there