5 ms·

I think the main thing, from a govt perspective, is that a popular social network not under the influence of the government is a real live-wire. The US wants to

by dilap 4y ago

I think the main thing, from a govt perspective, is that a popular social network not under the influence of the government is a real live-wire. The US wants to ban Tik Tok for the same reason that China bans Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. If it was actually about privacy or whatever, they would simply ban the privacy-violating practices, not the app itself.

thomastjeffery 4y ago
OK, let's run with that: Let's say TikTok becomes a fully-fledged US company. Is that actually something under the US government's control? I mean...will the US government actually do anything substantive to reign in the privacy violations of an American company? Yeah, right...
- philwelch 4y ago
  You remember the whole Snowden thing where all the US social media companies have NSA backdoors? Guess which government has backdoors into TikTok. In other words, it's less a user privacy issue and more a national security issue.
  - thomastjeffery 4y ago
    ...because the US government having a backdoor into Facebook isn't a national security issue? Because that isn't remotely the case. A backdoor exists for everyone, or it doesn't exist.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      It’s probably a national security issue for China, but they already banned Facebook.
cjf4 4y ago
That's half the story. The other half is that it's under the influence under an antagonistic authoritarian government. If tiktok were a japanese app, this would play out very differently.
dirtyid 4y ago
>US wants to ban Tik Tok for the same reason that China bans Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. Except once again, PRC doesn't ban US services, they force them to comply with PRC laws that has onerous moderation overheads. And these services refused back when SV was riding high on free speech, aka low cost moderation. IMO US wants to ban Tik Tok because they can't implement broad content/privacy rules like in PRC. Whether due to tech lobbying, because it's politically difficult, or it's politically inconvenient - US platforms implementing elevated standards will ripple expectations and costs across global markets where they operate. Also keep in mind that even PRC hasn't tried to force of sale US companies due to national security. Require joint ventures / ramp up costs, sure. With Oracle deal out, TikTok can't even operate in US the same way iCloud can operate in PRC.
- dilap 4y ago
  Thanks, good points. Though it's not as official as in China, major American social networks are increasingly heavily moderated, and increasingly do work closely with govt and close-to-government entities to enact desired moderation (censorship, if you prefer) policies. They do this "voluntarily", but it's not clear they could actually decline w/o suffering consequences. This is perhaps somewhat less true at Twitter post-Elon aquisition. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
mandrizzle 4y ago
How do you enforce privacy laws with foreign entities? They can just lie and say they’re compliant. Not sure if courts in China care
- dvngnt_ 4y ago
  At that point, Apple/Google would be forced to remove them from app stores since it would violate laws.

by dilap 4y ago

thomastjeffery 4y ago

OK, let's run with that: Let's say TikTok becomes a fully-fledged US company. Is that actually something under the US government's control? I mean...will the US government actually do anything substantive to reign in the privacy violations of an American company? Yeah, right...

philwelch 4y ago
You remember the whole Snowden thing where all the US social media companies have NSA backdoors? Guess which government has backdoors into TikTok. In other words, it's less a user privacy issue and more a national security issue.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  ...because the US government having a backdoor into Facebook isn't a national security issue? Because that isn't remotely the case. A backdoor exists for everyone, or it doesn't exist.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    It’s probably a national security issue for China, but they already banned Facebook.

cjf4 4y ago

That's half the story. The other half is that it's under the influence under an antagonistic authoritarian government. If tiktok were a japanese app, this would play out very differently.

dirtyid 4y ago

>US wants to ban Tik Tok for the same reason that China bans Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. Except once again, PRC doesn't ban US services, they force them to comply with PRC laws that has onerous moderation overheads. And these services refused back when SV was riding high on free speech, aka low cost moderation. IMO US wants to ban Tik Tok because they can't implement broad content/privacy rules like in PRC. Whether due to tech lobbying, because it's politically difficult, or it's politically inconvenient - US platforms implementing elevated standards will ripple expectations and costs across global markets where they operate. Also keep in mind that even PRC hasn't tried to force of sale US companies due to national security. Require joint ventures / ramp up costs, sure. With Oracle deal out, TikTok can't even operate in US the same way iCloud can operate in PRC.

dilap 4y ago
Thanks, good points. Though it's not as official as in China, major American social networks are increasingly heavily moderated, and increasingly do work closely with govt and close-to-government entities to enact desired moderation (censorship, if you prefer) policies. They do this "voluntarily", but it's not clear they could actually decline w/o suffering consequences. This is perhaps somewhat less true at Twitter post-Elon aquisition. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

mandrizzle 4y ago

How do you enforce privacy laws with foreign entities? They can just lie and say they’re compliant. Not sure if courts in China care

dvngnt_ 4y ago
At that point, Apple/Google would be forced to remove them from app stores since it would violate laws.