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FYI if anyone is interested I can prove it -- Cash App is engaged in a massive stock trading fraud. I noticed one day that my books were off (down) by 1 penny.

FYI if anyone is interested I can prove it -- Cash App is engaged in a massive stock trading fraud. I noticed one day that my books were off (down) by 1 penny. When I dug into it, I figured out that Cash App is providing their customers with conflicting reports for their stock sales. In the app, the sales report rounds pennies up, in the actual sale, whose records are only available through more complex data export process, the penny in the sale is rounded down, and they are keeping the difference. I found the rule in the legal terms which states that the calculation in the app presented to users is the correct one, and the penny is illegally missing. This is for every trade for every one of their users. The aggregate amount of money is huge. Edit: I just looked back at my analysis and now remember in some cases the missing money is more than one penny. If anyone would like to contact me one on one I can provide more proof.

dougSF70 4y ago
This is at the core of Superman III. Richard Priors' character notices his paycheck gets rounded down, he writes an app to harvest up the rounded down tenths of pennies...
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- dougSF70 4y ago
  I have often thought this is the business model of most payment apps.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- twosdayz 4y ago
  Isn't this also the premise of the Office Space scheme?
  - astura 4y ago
    ... which explicitly references Superman III as the source.
    - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
      Which is one reason I suspect it might not be true: not because Block is necessarily honest, but because everyone and their dog has heard of this scam and it's the first thing people would think of.
      - dougSF70 4y ago
        The twitter thread they published appears to contain supporting evidence. Or perhaps there was enough smoke to justify the short position which they covered at market open for a nice return.
- noduerme 4y ago
  Company I write software for had a small subset of customers begin complaining about fractional cents when New Jersey implemented a sales tax of 6.625%. To be fair, company gains and loses on the half cents this caused were in equal measure. But I was commissioned to turn literally everything from UI to database to receipts and invoices and annual reports into thousandths instead of hundreds. This is a fuckin dog boarding company I work for, not a bank. Because no, you can't screw your customers a half penny at a time... it's on you to fix the accounting and make it right.
macintux 4y ago
You reported this to the SEC, right?
theGnuMe 4y ago
If you cash out of the app do you get the full balance or the app balance?
- user3939382 4y ago
  That's the problem, when you cash out, you don't get the net amount listed in the app. You get a penny or sometimes even more than 1 penny less. The amount you get corresponds with the real net amount number that they've applied different rules to which is only available in your account export, only available through their website.
  - theGnuMe 4y ago
    Right but does it match the net export number which is the legal one? or the fake one?
    - user3939382 4y ago
      According to their terms, the correct, legal amount is the amount reported in the app. The illegal (and mismatched) amount in their export is what's being paid out.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - PaulWaldman 4y ago
    Not that this is acceptable, but is this just an issue with how the app is reporting money and you actually have the correct funds? Or is money actually being "absorbed" by the platform? Both are bad, one is far worse.
okasaki 4y ago
I have nothing to add except to say that that sounds like what they did in Office Space.
wslh 4y ago
This seems like a typical salami attack? [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics
mtoner23 4y ago
can almost gaurantee you this is not fraud its an odd lot exception. If you dont do trades in round lots brokers are allowed to bunch your orders together and not give you best execution.
- user3939382 4y ago
  There is no legitimate scenario where they would be reporting the Net Amount for the same sale in two places with different numbers.
- filoleg 4y ago
  I am hesitant to call it fraud yet, but the situation you are describing isn't what the parent comment is talking about. The issue isn't that it was executed at a higher price than expected or that it was "rounded up" in general. The issue is that for a single completed transaction, in one place (general app UI) it is reported to have executed at one price, and in another place (the data export process) it is reported at a different price.
inconceivable 4y ago
"we round them all down and just drop the remainder... into an account that we own." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZjCQ3T5yXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZjCQ3T5yXo
antisthenes 4y ago
Isn't this the plot of Swordfish?
- a4isms 4y ago
  Trivia: The title of the movie “Swordfish” is named after an old Marx Brothers routine from the movie “Horse Feathers, “ which revolves around an illegal speakeasy’s password to get in. Which is, of course, “swordfish.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqec8WrEQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqec8WrEQQ
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
See-Sharply 4y ago
…they’re doing a SupermanIII??!?
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paxys 4y ago
The fact that this is upvoted to the top of the page goes to show how little techies know about banks and trading and the financial system in general. No Block isn't running some elaborate Office Space style scam. If you open Vanguard or Fidelity or whatever else you will have the same experience. Trades are executed and settled by clearing houses and in-house accounting and audit departments, not iOS engineers. There is a lot of complexity behind the scenes that the app is hiding from you. Getting the estimate off by a few cents (say because the front end used the wrong floating point standard and/or only considered 5 decimal points instead of 6 in their calculations) is perfectly normal.
- user3939382 4y ago
  As I stated elsewhere: > There is no legitimate scenario where they would be reporting the Net Amount for the same sale in two places with different numbers. The net amount reported in the app isn't an estimate, nor is it ever updated. If you do the math, the amount listed in the app, according to their own report, is the correct amount. The final asset price X the final asset amount, as frozen in their long-term reports, is the amount listed in the app. There is no hand-waving financial explanation for this discrepancy. > Block isn't running some elaborate Office Space style scam I have black and white evidence that they are. Stealing isn't necessarily elaborate. I'm surprised you find this hard to believe when TFA is a report about other types of fraud by the same company. > how little techies know about banks and trading and the financial system ... There is a lot of complexity behind the scenes Your comment is a little condescending, I don't think it's a big secret that trades get settled.
  - paxys 4y ago
    Your allegation is that Block is showing you two different numbers, and pocketing the difference. Can you prove that? Does it show up on their financial statements? Or are their auditors involved in the grift as well? Or could it be that the number in your bank account is consistent with what the buyer/seller on the other end of the trade is getting?
    - 4y ago
sizzle 4y ago
They copied a page out of Office Space with the penny trick?

dougSF70 4y ago

This is at the core of Superman III. Richard Priors' character notices his paycheck gets rounded down, he writes an app to harvest up the rounded down tenths of pennies...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dougSF70 4y ago
I have often thought this is the business model of most payment apps.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
twosdayz 4y ago
Isn't this also the premise of the Office Space scheme?
- astura 4y ago
  ... which explicitly references Superman III as the source.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    Which is one reason I suspect it might not be true: not because Block is necessarily honest, but because everyone and their dog has heard of this scam and it's the first thing people would think of.
    - dougSF70 4y ago
      The twitter thread they published appears to contain supporting evidence. Or perhaps there was enough smoke to justify the short position which they covered at market open for a nice return.
noduerme 4y ago
Company I write software for had a small subset of customers begin complaining about fractional cents when New Jersey implemented a sales tax of 6.625%. To be fair, company gains and loses on the half cents this caused were in equal measure. But I was commissioned to turn literally everything from UI to database to receipts and invoices and annual reports into thousandths instead of hundreds. This is a fuckin dog boarding company I work for, not a bank. Because no, you can't screw your customers a half penny at a time... it's on you to fix the accounting and make it right.

macintux 4y ago

You reported this to the SEC, right?

theGnuMe 4y ago

If you cash out of the app do you get the full balance or the app balance?

user3939382 4y ago
That's the problem, when you cash out, you don't get the net amount listed in the app. You get a penny or sometimes even more than 1 penny less. The amount you get corresponds with the real net amount number that they've applied different rules to which is only available in your account export, only available through their website.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  Right but does it match the net export number which is the legal one? or the fake one?
  - user3939382 4y ago
    According to their terms, the correct, legal amount is the amount reported in the app. The illegal (and mismatched) amount in their export is what's being paid out.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- PaulWaldman 4y ago
  Not that this is acceptable, but is this just an issue with how the app is reporting money and you actually have the correct funds? Or is money actually being "absorbed" by the platform? Both are bad, one is far worse.

okasaki 4y ago

I have nothing to add except to say that that sounds like what they did in Office Space.

wslh 4y ago

This seems like a typical salami attack? [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics

mtoner23 4y ago

can almost gaurantee you this is not fraud its an odd lot exception. If you dont do trades in round lots brokers are allowed to bunch your orders together and not give you best execution.

user3939382 4y ago
There is no legitimate scenario where they would be reporting the Net Amount for the same sale in two places with different numbers.
filoleg 4y ago
I am hesitant to call it fraud yet, but the situation you are describing isn't what the parent comment is talking about. The issue isn't that it was executed at a higher price than expected or that it was "rounded up" in general. The issue is that for a single completed transaction, in one place (general app UI) it is reported to have executed at one price, and in another place (the data export process) it is reported at a different price.

inconceivable 4y ago

"we round them all down and just drop the remainder... into an account that we own." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZjCQ3T5yXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZjCQ3T5yXo

antisthenes 4y ago

Isn't this the plot of Swordfish?

a4isms 4y ago
Trivia: The title of the movie “Swordfish” is named after an old Marx Brothers routine from the movie “Horse Feathers, “ which revolves around an illegal speakeasy’s password to get in. Which is, of course, “swordfish.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqec8WrEQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqec8WrEQQ

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

See-Sharply 4y ago

…they’re doing a SupermanIII??!?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

paxys 4y ago

The fact that this is upvoted to the top of the page goes to show how little techies know about banks and trading and the financial system in general. No Block isn't running some elaborate Office Space style scam. If you open Vanguard or Fidelity or whatever else you will have the same experience. Trades are executed and settled by clearing houses and in-house accounting and audit departments, not iOS engineers. There is a lot of complexity behind the scenes that the app is hiding from you. Getting the estimate off by a few cents (say because the front end used the wrong floating point standard and/or only considered 5 decimal points instead of 6 in their calculations) is perfectly normal.

user3939382 4y ago
As I stated elsewhere: > There is no legitimate scenario where they would be reporting the Net Amount for the same sale in two places with different numbers. The net amount reported in the app isn't an estimate, nor is it ever updated. If you do the math, the amount listed in the app, according to their own report, is the correct amount. The final asset price X the final asset amount, as frozen in their long-term reports, is the amount listed in the app. There is no hand-waving financial explanation for this discrepancy. > Block isn't running some elaborate Office Space style scam I have black and white evidence that they are. Stealing isn't necessarily elaborate. I'm surprised you find this hard to believe when TFA is a report about other types of fraud by the same company. > how little techies know about banks and trading and the financial system ... There is a lot of complexity behind the scenes Your comment is a little condescending, I don't think it's a big secret that trades get settled.
- paxys 4y ago
  Your allegation is that Block is showing you two different numbers, and pocketing the difference. Can you prove that? Does it show up on their financial statements? Or are their auditors involved in the grift as well? Or could it be that the number in your bank account is consistent with what the buyer/seller on the other end of the trade is getting?
  - 4y ago

sizzle 4y ago

They copied a page out of Office Space with the penny trick?