8 ms·

I am curios how this will play out because I believe this has nothing to do with privacy or Chinese spying. Instead congress is being lobbied by Facebook[1] and

I am curios how this will play out because I believe this has nothing to do with privacy or Chinese spying. Instead congress is being lobbied by Facebook[1] and co to remove a competitor from the playing field that is currently eating their lunch. One scenario I can see is that the US will ban TikTok while the EU will implement much stricter privacy rules which would need to be adhered by TikTok and all the other (Instagram, Facebook etc). Effectively making the whole reason the US is going to ban TikTok moot. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo... EDIT: Spelling

CharlesW 4y ago
Because I'd want someone to do this for me, the word you want is "moot". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moot https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moot
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mcv 4y ago
I'm hoping that this will result in banning excessive data collection by not just TikTok, but also Facebook and others. Why single out TikTok? Only because it's Chinese?
- VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
  Yeah pretty much just because it's Chinese. China doesn't allow American internet companies access to their market either though.
  - yorwba 4y ago
    Microsoft's Bing is allowed, because they apply the same censorship as local companies. That's a barrier to entry into the market (need to hire lots of censors) but not a competitive disadvantage (because everyone else also needs to hire lots of censors). American politicians who want to copy Chinese policies to retaliate for unfair treatment of American companies would be retaliating against American citizens for unfairly having First Amendment rights when Chinese citizens don't.
    - mannerheim 4y ago
      I doubt American citizens would be banned from accessing TikTok. It would just be banned from app stores and CDNs, presumably if they sideload or visit the website they will be able to access it.
      - mad0 4y ago
        I think this would effectively drop the usage (maybe not to 0 but enough to allow other social services to come back on the stage). Most people don't know how to sideload or don't want to sideload anything out of app store, the webpage version is unwieldy to use.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-china-ends-censorship https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch... > Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. How many Chinese human rights activists use or used Hotmail?
      - rfoo 4y ago
        Quite a lot in the old days. Microsoft is a well-known brand in China. Grandma and grandpas are repeating stories of Bill Gates during 00s, they don't know who tf Sergey is. There are very minimal Mac users, so computer = PC = Windows + Office = Microsoft.
        cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        That doesn't mean tech-savvy human rights activists used Microsoft's HotMail over Gmail.
        rfoo 4y ago
        Human rights activists are not tech-savvy.
  - ramblenode 4y ago
    > China doesn't allow American internet companies access to their market either though. Google and Facebook both used to operate in China. The government of China told them to start censoring certain content. US lawmakers did not like this and warned the companies not to comply with Chinese rules. So the companies left China to keep the US side happy. So to be clear, there was active pressure from the highest levels of US government for American companies not to build products in China that could be used for censorship. The revisionist history is wild.
    - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
      Why did you leave out the cyberattacks on Google against CCP's opponents? https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-china-ends-censorship https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch... See this is one of the advantages of having an open society. Google is not censored in the US and we can look up the history of Google being forced out of China. > Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Congress is also being lobbied by TikTok. I've noticed three main opposition points here. - It's to protect US tech giants - It's Sinophobic - Privacy laws for all tech would be preferable These all deflect from the reason there is a hearing today: Concerns regarding the handling of US user data by a large company with ties to the Chinese communist government.
- maxfurman 4y ago
  Your third point, strict privacy laws for all, would protect American devices from the CCP, no?
  - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    Yes, I’m sure the CCP is going to adhere to US privacy laws.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    Maybe. China also wasn't supposed to have access to US TikTok data but they do. What makes you so sure that they would obey some new privacy law? As much as I'd like better privacy laws, why should US tech giants be punished for what TikTok is doing?
    - angio 4y ago
      In that case they would be banned under the new law, the same way any other company would.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - maxfurman 4y ago
      Because the privacy abuses are privacy abuses, regardless of their country of origin? If Google is already properly respecting their users privacy they won't be affected by a strong privacy law - except we know that they aren't, and therefore we should be cleaning house instead of singling out Tik Tok.
dilap 4y ago
I think the main thing, from a govt perspective, is that a popular social network not under the influence of the government is a real live-wire. The US wants to ban Tik Tok for the same reason that China bans Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. If it was actually about privacy or whatever, they would simply ban the privacy-violating practices, not the app itself.
- thomastjeffery 4y ago
  OK, let's run with that: Let's say TikTok becomes a fully-fledged US company. Is that actually something under the US government's control? I mean...will the US government actually do anything substantive to reign in the privacy violations of an American company? Yeah, right...
  - philwelch 4y ago
    You remember the whole Snowden thing where all the US social media companies have NSA backdoors? Guess which government has backdoors into TikTok. In other words, it's less a user privacy issue and more a national security issue.
    - thomastjeffery 4y ago
      ...because the US government having a backdoor into Facebook isn't a national security issue? Because that isn't remotely the case. A backdoor exists for everyone, or it doesn't exist.
      - philwelch 4y ago
        It’s probably a national security issue for China, but they already banned Facebook.
- cjf4 4y ago
  That's half the story. The other half is that it's under the influence under an antagonistic authoritarian government. If tiktok were a japanese app, this would play out very differently.
colpabar 4y ago
I don't get why people can't just admit that banning tiktok would be a step forward in protecting privacy. It's only one app, sure, but it would be one less app collecting everyone's data. It's also extremely popular in america, so it is probably collecting a lot of data. The US passing legislation that would protect user data likely won't happen for a long time. The US banning tiktok seems like it may happen soon. I think most people agree the former is more ideal, but wouldn't the latter also be a good thing? For what it's worth, I really hate most social media and the general landscape of "free" products/services that make their money by selling your data, and I do hope one day we have laws that strictly regulate who can sell what, or just ban the practice entirely. But that includes tiktok, so it being banned would be a good thing in my book.
ironyman 4y ago
I agree with the assessment[1] that even if it isn't illegally collecting data it should be banned because it gives China a crucial edge in the development of AI tools that American companies don't have. China is able to freely access Western markets but not the other way around. [1] https://www.vox.com/recode/23453786/tiktok-bytedance-cfius-data-trump-ban https://www.vox.com/recode/23453786/tiktok-bytedance-cfius-d...

CharlesW 4y ago

Because I'd want someone to do this for me, the word you want is "moot". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moot https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moot

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

mcv 4y ago

I'm hoping that this will result in banning excessive data collection by not just TikTok, but also Facebook and others. Why single out TikTok? Only because it's Chinese?

VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
Yeah pretty much just because it's Chinese. China doesn't allow American internet companies access to their market either though.
- yorwba 4y ago
  Microsoft's Bing is allowed, because they apply the same censorship as local companies. That's a barrier to entry into the market (need to hire lots of censors) but not a competitive disadvantage (because everyone else also needs to hire lots of censors). American politicians who want to copy Chinese policies to retaliate for unfair treatment of American companies would be retaliating against American citizens for unfairly having First Amendment rights when Chinese citizens don't.
  - mannerheim 4y ago
    I doubt American citizens would be banned from accessing TikTok. It would just be banned from app stores and CDNs, presumably if they sideload or visit the website they will be able to access it.
    - mad0 4y ago
      I think this would effectively drop the usage (maybe not to 0 but enough to allow other social services to come back on the stage). Most people don't know how to sideload or don't want to sideload anything out of app store, the webpage version is unwieldy to use.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-china-ends-censorship https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch... > Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. How many Chinese human rights activists use or used Hotmail?
    - rfoo 4y ago
      Quite a lot in the old days. Microsoft is a well-known brand in China. Grandma and grandpas are repeating stories of Bill Gates during 00s, they don't know who tf Sergey is. There are very minimal Mac users, so computer = PC = Windows + Office = Microsoft.
      - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
        That doesn't mean tech-savvy human rights activists used Microsoft's HotMail over Gmail.
        rfoo 4y ago
        Human rights activists are not tech-savvy.
- ramblenode 4y ago
  > China doesn't allow American internet companies access to their market either though. Google and Facebook both used to operate in China. The government of China told them to start censoring certain content. US lawmakers did not like this and warned the companies not to comply with Chinese rules. So the companies left China to keep the US side happy. So to be clear, there was active pressure from the highest levels of US government for American companies not to build products in China that could be used for censorship. The revisionist history is wild.
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    Why did you leave out the cyberattacks on Google against CCP's opponents? https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-china-ends-censorship https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch... See this is one of the advantages of having an open society. Google is not censored in the US and we can look up the history of Google being forced out of China. > Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

Congress is also being lobbied by TikTok. I've noticed three main opposition points here. - It's to protect US tech giants - It's Sinophobic - Privacy laws for all tech would be preferable These all deflect from the reason there is a hearing today: Concerns regarding the handling of US user data by a large company with ties to the Chinese communist government.

maxfurman 4y ago
Your third point, strict privacy laws for all, would protect American devices from the CCP, no?
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  Yes, I’m sure the CCP is going to adhere to US privacy laws.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Maybe. China also wasn't supposed to have access to US TikTok data but they do. What makes you so sure that they would obey some new privacy law? As much as I'd like better privacy laws, why should US tech giants be punished for what TikTok is doing?
  - angio 4y ago
    In that case they would be banned under the new law, the same way any other company would.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - maxfurman 4y ago
    Because the privacy abuses are privacy abuses, regardless of their country of origin? If Google is already properly respecting their users privacy they won't be affected by a strong privacy law - except we know that they aren't, and therefore we should be cleaning house instead of singling out Tik Tok.

dilap 4y ago

I think the main thing, from a govt perspective, is that a popular social network not under the influence of the government is a real live-wire. The US wants to ban Tik Tok for the same reason that China bans Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. If it was actually about privacy or whatever, they would simply ban the privacy-violating practices, not the app itself.

thomastjeffery 4y ago
OK, let's run with that: Let's say TikTok becomes a fully-fledged US company. Is that actually something under the US government's control? I mean...will the US government actually do anything substantive to reign in the privacy violations of an American company? Yeah, right...
- philwelch 4y ago
  You remember the whole Snowden thing where all the US social media companies have NSA backdoors? Guess which government has backdoors into TikTok. In other words, it's less a user privacy issue and more a national security issue.
  - thomastjeffery 4y ago
    ...because the US government having a backdoor into Facebook isn't a national security issue? Because that isn't remotely the case. A backdoor exists for everyone, or it doesn't exist.
    - philwelch 4y ago
      It’s probably a national security issue for China, but they already banned Facebook.
cjf4 4y ago
That's half the story. The other half is that it's under the influence under an antagonistic authoritarian government. If tiktok were a japanese app, this would play out very differently.

colpabar 4y ago

I don't get why people can't just admit that banning tiktok would be a step forward in protecting privacy. It's only one app, sure, but it would be one less app collecting everyone's data. It's also extremely popular in america, so it is probably collecting a lot of data. The US passing legislation that would protect user data likely won't happen for a long time. The US banning tiktok seems like it may happen soon. I think most people agree the former is more ideal, but wouldn't the latter also be a good thing? For what it's worth, I really hate most social media and the general landscape of "free" products/services that make their money by selling your data, and I do hope one day we have laws that strictly regulate who can sell what, or just ban the practice entirely. But that includes tiktok, so it being banned would be a good thing in my book.

ironyman 4y ago

I agree with the assessment[1] that even if it isn't illegally collecting data it should be banned because it gives China a crucial edge in the development of AI tools that American companies don't have. China is able to freely access Western markets but not the other way around. [1] https://www.vox.com/recode/23453786/tiktok-bytedance-cfius-data-trump-ban https://www.vox.com/recode/23453786/tiktok-bytedance-cfius-d...