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>Where do the 700,000 Android phones that get activated every day get made? Is Google blameless because they dont make it themselves? But..but..but...as we are

>Where do the 700,000 Android phones that get activated every day get made? Is Google blameless because they dont make it themselves? But..but..but...as we are tirelessly reminded by some folks here, Apple takes most of the profits of the mobile handset industry, so they're in the best position to lessen their huge margin by a few percentage points so as to not endanger the lives of the people that make the phones. If they make the most money from making people work in inhumane conditions, they deserve the most blame, esp. since they have the most leverage to pay more.

lloeki 15y ago
According to Tim Cook's company email on the matter, they do. The fact is, you can't just pour money over the place and see what comes out of it. Especially in a country like China, and with multiple factories sizing in the range of 100'000s of workers. Hundred fscking thousands. This is the same order of magnitude as the whole of General Motors, for a single factory. The whole thing is architected to be able to reconfigure itself to produce whatever the demand needs almost overnight. This is incredible. There is no single country out there which has such a powerful tool. It's of thermonuclear scale, when the US tries to fight with a bunch of Winchesters (and even smaller countries like France are battling with swords and bows in a stone castle). Even if you're Apple you can't come in cash in hand and say 'Okay folks, this is not how we want things to work here' and re-architect the whole thing in a day. As you said they're in the best position to use leverage and I think they're doing it but moving such a huge block needs a freaking huge lever, and time.
Steko 15y ago
Now you're just arguing degrees of evilness. My point here is not to defend Apple, they may well be evil to the core, but to point out the error in O'Reilly's defense of Google. Google isn't just a privacy policy and a SAAS company. As a continued tangent though, let's talk about Apple's culpability and how much blame they deserve. "they deserve the most blame, esp. since they have the most leverage" My problem with this is you're assuming Apple hasn't used any leverage positively here which may be true but may not, we've seen indications that they are doing more but also that might just be PR window dressing. Let's see a real "apples to Apple" comparison side by side with other major vendors. And by all means let's condemn then if they are worse then others. OTOH if it turns out that Apple is, relatively speaking, the gold standard and is doing the most to improve conditions then it might turn out they are deserving of praise. Either way Tim O'Reilly is wrong.

lloeki 15y ago

According to Tim Cook's company email on the matter, they do. The fact is, you can't just pour money over the place and see what comes out of it. Especially in a country like China, and with multiple factories sizing in the range of 100'000s of workers. Hundred fscking thousands. This is the same order of magnitude as the whole of General Motors, for a single factory. The whole thing is architected to be able to reconfigure itself to produce whatever the demand needs almost overnight. This is incredible. There is no single country out there which has such a powerful tool. It's of thermonuclear scale, when the US tries to fight with a bunch of Winchesters (and even smaller countries like France are battling with swords and bows in a stone castle). Even if you're Apple you can't come in cash in hand and say 'Okay folks, this is not how we want things to work here' and re-architect the whole thing in a day. As you said they're in the best position to use leverage and I think they're doing it but moving such a huge block needs a freaking huge lever, and time.

Steko 15y ago

Now you're just arguing degrees of evilness. My point here is not to defend Apple, they may well be evil to the core, but to point out the error in O'Reilly's defense of Google. Google isn't just a privacy policy and a SAAS company. As a continued tangent though, let's talk about Apple's culpability and how much blame they deserve. "they deserve the most blame, esp. since they have the most leverage" My problem with this is you're assuming Apple hasn't used any leverage positively here which may be true but may not, we've seen indications that they are doing more but also that might just be PR window dressing. Let's see a real "apples to Apple" comparison side by side with other major vendors. And by all means let's condemn then if they are worse then others. OTOH if it turns out that Apple is, relatively speaking, the gold standard and is doing the most to improve conditions then it might turn out they are deserving of praise. Either way Tim O'Reilly is wrong.