5 ms·

Same here, but I'm curious what you think causes this mediocrity? I'm assuming the AAA game studios and Holywood know what they're doing, and money is definite

Same here, but I'm curious what you think causes this mediocrity? I'm assuming the AAA game studios and Holywood know what they're doing, and money is definitely an objective. But why do they not succeed in telling an interesting story? Is it the focus on production quality? Is that the result of compromise between too many middle managers? Or simply: too much money, no one cares?

Dalewyn 4y ago
I think it's very simple: In a bid to satisfy everyone, they end up satisfying noone. If you try to create a product for everyone, you will end up with a product so bland and void of character that noone will want it. A good product has its fair shares of fans and detractors, a bad product either has only fans or detractors.
- pipo234 4y ago
  So are you saying it's simply bad marketing research? Ie. if they would be able to narrow the target audience from "everyone" to a proper niche (say 18+ or teen age girls) they might succeed? That is: target a smaller market but server them better? I feel that somehow, even with all those dedicated, inspired (and underpaid) creatives working insane hours, organizational structures (middle managers?) unintentionally prevent all that creativity from bubbling up. (I'm saying unintentionally here to suppress sarcasm but also because obviously a successful product is in the organization's best interest.)
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >So are you saying it's simply bad marketing research? Ie. if they would be able to narrow the target audience from "everyone" to a proper niche (say 18+ or teen age girls) they might succeed? That is: target a smaller market but server them better? Yes. Consider games like Octopath Traveller which aim for and sell to a specific audience (fans of jRPGs from the 90s), they succeed where the likes of CoD don't. Successful products begin by knowing who you want to sell to and why. Developing and selling a one-size-fits-all product to everyone, that is "the Average Man", simply won't work because the Average Man doesn't exist. The US Air Force will be happy to educate anyone on this. Noone wants a bland, vapid, sanitary product "for everyone".
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      >Consider games like Octopath Traveller which aim for and sell to a specific audience (fans of jRPGs from the 90s), they succeed where the likes of CoD don't. Successful products begin by knowing who you want to sell to and why. 2.5 million sales for Octopath Traveler (and OT2 doing awful). Do I really need to pull out the sales numbers of Call of Duty, or do you admit right now that you made a horrible bad faith argument? And please, do not use the "but sales don't mean it's good" argument either. You can _easily_ find 2.5 million people that truly enjoy Call of Duty.
      - bluefirebrand 4y ago
        > And please, do not use the "but sales don't mean it's good" argument either. You can _easily_ find 2.5 million people that truly enjoy Call of Duty. People enjoying it does not mean it's good. Otherwise McDonalds is the best cuisine of all time.
    - pipo234 4y ago
      > Noone wants a bland, vapid, sanitary product "for everyone". Well, empirically you're wrong. Unfortunately, there's enough of a market for Marvel movies and big-ass games titles to make huge profits, even if we feel they're too average, too mediocre to spend a single dime. ...But I get what you're saying. ;-)
  - raincole 4y ago
    It's "good" marketing research. Those AAA games with movie-like scenes do sell. Marketing research isn't "Hey, Dalewyn, what kind of game do you want us to make personally?"
- jl6 4y ago
  It’s a tempting explanation, but were Hollywood movies ever not aiming for the biggest audience possible? I buy the argument for games though, which historically have been much cheaper to produce and hence could be targeted to a smaller audience.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    Hollywood movies have become open propaganda as a platform for beat you over the head messaging. They want the broad audience but they chase them away at the same time when they see the films. It makes people cynical and reduces interest over time.

Dalewyn 4y ago

I think it's very simple: In a bid to satisfy everyone, they end up satisfying noone. If you try to create a product for everyone, you will end up with a product so bland and void of character that noone will want it. A good product has its fair shares of fans and detractors, a bad product either has only fans or detractors.

pipo234 4y ago
So are you saying it's simply bad marketing research? Ie. if they would be able to narrow the target audience from "everyone" to a proper niche (say 18+ or teen age girls) they might succeed? That is: target a smaller market but server them better? I feel that somehow, even with all those dedicated, inspired (and underpaid) creatives working insane hours, organizational structures (middle managers?) unintentionally prevent all that creativity from bubbling up. (I'm saying unintentionally here to suppress sarcasm but also because obviously a successful product is in the organization's best interest.)
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >So are you saying it's simply bad marketing research? Ie. if they would be able to narrow the target audience from "everyone" to a proper niche (say 18+ or teen age girls) they might succeed? That is: target a smaller market but server them better? Yes. Consider games like Octopath Traveller which aim for and sell to a specific audience (fans of jRPGs from the 90s), they succeed where the likes of CoD don't. Successful products begin by knowing who you want to sell to and why. Developing and selling a one-size-fits-all product to everyone, that is "the Average Man", simply won't work because the Average Man doesn't exist. The US Air Force will be happy to educate anyone on this. Noone wants a bland, vapid, sanitary product "for everyone".
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    >Consider games like Octopath Traveller which aim for and sell to a specific audience (fans of jRPGs from the 90s), they succeed where the likes of CoD don't. Successful products begin by knowing who you want to sell to and why. 2.5 million sales for Octopath Traveler (and OT2 doing awful). Do I really need to pull out the sales numbers of Call of Duty, or do you admit right now that you made a horrible bad faith argument? And please, do not use the "but sales don't mean it's good" argument either. You can _easily_ find 2.5 million people that truly enjoy Call of Duty.
    - bluefirebrand 4y ago
      > And please, do not use the "but sales don't mean it's good" argument either. You can _easily_ find 2.5 million people that truly enjoy Call of Duty. People enjoying it does not mean it's good. Otherwise McDonalds is the best cuisine of all time.
  - pipo234 4y ago
    > Noone wants a bland, vapid, sanitary product "for everyone". Well, empirically you're wrong. Unfortunately, there's enough of a market for Marvel movies and big-ass games titles to make huge profits, even if we feel they're too average, too mediocre to spend a single dime. ...But I get what you're saying. ;-)
- raincole 4y ago
  It's "good" marketing research. Those AAA games with movie-like scenes do sell. Marketing research isn't "Hey, Dalewyn, what kind of game do you want us to make personally?"
jl6 4y ago
It’s a tempting explanation, but were Hollywood movies ever not aiming for the biggest audience possible? I buy the argument for games though, which historically have been much cheaper to produce and hence could be targeted to a smaller audience.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  Hollywood movies have become open propaganda as a platform for beat you over the head messaging. They want the broad audience but they chase them away at the same time when they see the films. It makes people cynical and reduces interest over time.