4 ms·

Relevant context here: It's cryptocurrency not a "normal" payment platform

by dtech 4y ago

yreg 4y ago
> Wyre Payments, the company’s upstream payment processor, terminated SpankPay’s account because Wyre’s new payment processor, Checkout.com, doesn’t allow processing for payments related to sexual businesses, SpankPay said. Sounds like it would end the same if they were a "normal" sex work payment platform.
springogeek 4y ago
Not that relevant, this happens to a lot of sex-work oriented platforms. Payment processors often discriminate or demand heavy censorship/arbitrary rules from these platforms.
- tvink 4y ago
  Different industries have different fraud rates and different legal difficulties around the globe. It might not be a good enough reason from your perspective to blanket ban them, but exclusion based on different legal overhead or risk profile is not the same as arbitrary rules or censorship.
  - johngladtj 4y ago
    This has little to do with fraud, and everything to do with political pressure
    - jwestbury 4y ago
      Whilst I suspect you're right, I'm not sure this goes without saying. I'd love to see some data to back up this claim.
      - _cenw 4y ago
        Just look at Patreon and their continued stuggle with NSFW artists. I briefly worked on a similar smaller site that allows for artists drawing explicit things, and our payment processor would threaten us weekly to cut us off for arbitrary reasons. The chargeback/fraud rate did not differ based on the user drawing explicit content or not.
      - springogeek 4y ago
        I can't point at data, but there's plenty of articles and reports, including this from the EFF: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-are-trying-dictate-what-you-can-watch-pornhub https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-ar...
    - joosters 4y ago
      The political pressure (on crypto and banking) is also because of fraud. If you are transferring money via a blockchain with no KYC, it's going to be hard to get a legitimate banking partner to be happy with that. Now when you say 'but it's only going to be used by the sex industry', you're adding another area of high fraud on top. It's hardly surprising that financial companies want nothing to do with two high-risk sectors sandwiched on top of each other.
  - justusw 4y ago
    I wonder if there is anything to the trope, that when the adult video payment eventually shows up on a married couple’s credit card bill, the spouse who signed up for a heftily expensive subscription will claim that their credit card must have been stolen. Thus they will demand the charge to be reverted and thus, many charges being disputed simply because of people’s prudishness. And then porn site operators have high fraud rates. I wonder if they are also more liable to become victims of card testing.
    - bilbo0s 4y ago
      I don't know if we can say they are more or less likely to be victims of card stealing, but that there are a higher number of reversed charges unquestionably true. Had huge problems with that before ccbill. Even after, there were still a higher than normal number of issues. I think honest people would concede that there are many, many legit issues around chargebacks. But if it's about money, then just say it's about money and everyone can sit down and go to work on finding methods of reducing chargebacks that actually work.
- seydor 4y ago
  they apply the same rules to e.g. nudism
defrost 4y ago
Allie Eve Knox, a sex worker and advisor to SpankPay. Knox has been banned from every mainstream payment app available today, including PayPal, Square, Circle, Cashapp, and Venmo, and uses crypto as a way to continue to live and pay the bills. Sex workers face near-constant deplatforming, loss of income, and instability in their work as a result of discriminatory financial institutions and laws. In December, Knox and Ameen Soleimani, co-founder of Spankchain, joined adult industry advocacy group The Free Speech Coalition on Congressional visits to discuss financial discrimination against sex workers with legislators. It's across all payment platforms, it's targeted against sex workers, and they're seeking federal intervention in the US to attain fair access.
- moremetadata 4y ago
  [dead]
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Allie Eve Knox has been banned from every mainstream payment app available today, including PayPal, Square, Circle, Cashapp, and Venmo, and uses crypto as a way to continue to live and pay the bills. This seeems to cross over from 'we dont want your business' into purposefully targetting and harrasing activists. Maybe their should be investigation to make sure these provideds aren't conspiring?
  - eldritch_4ier 4y ago
    Activist? She's a prostitute.

Relevant context here: It's cryptocurrency not a "normal" payment platform

by dtech 4y ago

Relevant context here: It's cryptocurrency not a "normal" payment platform

yreg 4y ago

> Wyre Payments, the company’s upstream payment processor, terminated SpankPay’s account because Wyre’s new payment processor, Checkout.com, doesn’t allow processing for payments related to sexual businesses, SpankPay said. Sounds like it would end the same if they were a "normal" sex work payment platform.

springogeek 4y ago

Not that relevant, this happens to a lot of sex-work oriented platforms. Payment processors often discriminate or demand heavy censorship/arbitrary rules from these platforms.

tvink 4y ago
Different industries have different fraud rates and different legal difficulties around the globe. It might not be a good enough reason from your perspective to blanket ban them, but exclusion based on different legal overhead or risk profile is not the same as arbitrary rules or censorship.
- johngladtj 4y ago
  This has little to do with fraud, and everything to do with political pressure
  - jwestbury 4y ago
    Whilst I suspect you're right, I'm not sure this goes without saying. I'd love to see some data to back up this claim.
    - _cenw 4y ago
      Just look at Patreon and their continued stuggle with NSFW artists. I briefly worked on a similar smaller site that allows for artists drawing explicit things, and our payment processor would threaten us weekly to cut us off for arbitrary reasons. The chargeback/fraud rate did not differ based on the user drawing explicit content or not.
    - springogeek 4y ago
      I can't point at data, but there's plenty of articles and reports, including this from the EFF: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-are-trying-dictate-what-you-can-watch-pornhub https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/visa-and-mastercard-ar...
  - joosters 4y ago
    The political pressure (on crypto and banking) is also because of fraud. If you are transferring money via a blockchain with no KYC, it's going to be hard to get a legitimate banking partner to be happy with that. Now when you say 'but it's only going to be used by the sex industry', you're adding another area of high fraud on top. It's hardly surprising that financial companies want nothing to do with two high-risk sectors sandwiched on top of each other.
- justusw 4y ago
  I wonder if there is anything to the trope, that when the adult video payment eventually shows up on a married couple’s credit card bill, the spouse who signed up for a heftily expensive subscription will claim that their credit card must have been stolen. Thus they will demand the charge to be reverted and thus, many charges being disputed simply because of people’s prudishness. And then porn site operators have high fraud rates. I wonder if they are also more liable to become victims of card testing.
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    I don't know if we can say they are more or less likely to be victims of card stealing, but that there are a higher number of reversed charges unquestionably true. Had huge problems with that before ccbill. Even after, there were still a higher than normal number of issues. I think honest people would concede that there are many, many legit issues around chargebacks. But if it's about money, then just say it's about money and everyone can sit down and go to work on finding methods of reducing chargebacks that actually work.
seydor 4y ago
they apply the same rules to e.g. nudism

defrost 4y ago

Allie Eve Knox, a sex worker and advisor to SpankPay. Knox has been banned from every mainstream payment app available today, including PayPal, Square, Circle, Cashapp, and Venmo, and uses crypto as a way to continue to live and pay the bills. Sex workers face near-constant deplatforming, loss of income, and instability in their work as a result of discriminatory financial institutions and laws. In December, Knox and Ameen Soleimani, co-founder of Spankchain, joined adult industry advocacy group The Free Speech Coalition on Congressional visits to discuss financial discrimination against sex workers with legislators. It's across all payment platforms, it's targeted against sex workers, and they're seeking federal intervention in the US to attain fair access.

moremetadata 4y ago
[dead]
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Allie Eve Knox has been banned from every mainstream payment app available today, including PayPal, Square, Circle, Cashapp, and Venmo, and uses crypto as a way to continue to live and pay the bills. This seeems to cross over from 'we dont want your business' into purposefully targetting and harrasing activists. Maybe their should be investigation to make sure these provideds aren't conspiring?
- eldritch_4ier 4y ago
  Activist? She's a prostitute.