4 ms·

A modern smartphone running on riscv is still far far away.

snvzz 4y ago
For some definition of "far far away". CPU-wise, there are cores that match or beat popular ARM designs extensively used in SoCs driving the current generation of smartphones. The Android RISC-V port is now upstream, and it is considered a priority by Google[0]. The JIT support was merged a few weeks after. Their current intent, as I understand it, is to influence RVA23 to ensure it is in good shape, and to make it a requirement for official support (e.g. google play services). The Chinese might, however, jump the gun and release something earlier than that, without google play services, possibly as soon as this year. As for most of the world, based on past latency from spec to hardware, we'll have some phones by 2025 at the earliest, 2026 for sure. By 2027, I expect the majority of phones will have SoCs based on RISC-V, including most flagships. In parallel with the phones, Windows-based laptops with RISC-V CPU will displace the ARM-based ones, with Microsoft also apparently intending RVA23 as requirement, as per RISC-V Summit, RISC-V's CTO talks. 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70O_RmTWP58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70O_RmTWP58
- re-thc 4y ago
  > By 2027, I expect the majority of phones will have SoCs based on RISC-V, including most flagships. And what reason would Apple have to make the switch to RISC-V?
  - justinclift 4y ago
    They're pretty clearly meaning non-apple flagship phones, and they did say "most".
    - re-thc 4y ago
      Don't see how you get most if you ignore Apple (like it or not). More like "none". Unless Qualcomm vs ARM (over Nuvia) is a total disaster, Qualcomm is not doing RISC-V on phones / servers. That court case is still 2-3 years in the making. What other flagship do we have left to even get close to "most"?
      - justinclift 4y ago
        > What other flagship do we have left to even get close to "most"? Everything other than apple? The world is a big place. Apple doesn't rule the world. :p
        re-thc 4y ago
        Everything other than Apple/Qualcomm as a flagship is pretty minor. Most sell more midrange machines. I did mention Qualcomm and after paying for Nuvia I doubt they're switching.
        snvzz 4y ago
        The subject of the lawsuit? It might never see the light of day with an ARM frontend. As for the RISC-V frontend, it must already be many years underway. When they bought Nuvia, they also got their team, imho most valuable part of the acquisition. I expect Qualcomm to be among the first to provide SoCs for RISC-V based Android smartphones and RISC-V based Windows laptops. I also expect them to show up in the datacenter with competitive RISC-V based server chip offerings.
        re-thc 4y ago
        > The subject of the lawsuit? Can't use Nuvia license without paying ARM some extra fees i.e. licensing it for Qualcomm violates the "terms" says ARM.
- lttlrck 4y ago
  If they can eclipse Arm performance maybe. But Samsung, Qualcomm have struggled to match Apple with Arm for years... licensing isn't what's holding them back. It seems quite optimistic to think they can match even their own Arm designs in performance with RISCV in the next 5 years. Could Microsoft turn around their phone market position in that time? It seems doubtful.
  - snvzz 4y ago
    Samsung, Qualcomm are perhaps among the worst examples. They stopped designing their own arm cores long ago; they use ARM's own. Instead, they are very active RISC-V members. Refer to December's RISC-V Summit, specifically, Qualcomm's talks. They are deeply committed to RISC-V, and they are being sued by ARM; No doubt they are doing everything they can to leave the legacy ISA behind as soon as humanly possible.
- throwaway4good 4y ago
  Sounds great but maybe also a bit optimistic.

For some definition of "far far away". CPU-wise, there are cores that match or beat popular ARM designs extensively used in SoCs driving the current generation of smartphones. The Android RISC-V port is now upstream, and it is considered a priority by Google[0]. The JIT support was merged a few weeks after. Their current intent, as I understand it, is to influence RVA23 to ensure it is in good shape, and to make it a requirement for official support (e.g. google play services). The Chinese might, however, jump the gun and release something earlier than that, without google play services, possibly as soon as this year. As for most of the world, based on past latency from spec to hardware, we'll have some phones by 2025 at the earliest, 2026 for sure. By 2027, I expect the majority of phones will have SoCs based on RISC-V, including most flagships. In parallel with the phones, Windows-based laptops with RISC-V CPU will displace the ARM-based ones, with Microsoft also apparently intending RVA23 as requirement, as per RISC-V Summit, RISC-V's CTO talks. 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70O_RmTWP58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70O_RmTWP58

re-thc 4y ago
> By 2027, I expect the majority of phones will have SoCs based on RISC-V, including most flagships. And what reason would Apple have to make the switch to RISC-V?
- justinclift 4y ago
  They're pretty clearly meaning non-apple flagship phones, and they did say "most".
  - re-thc 4y ago
    Don't see how you get most if you ignore Apple (like it or not). More like "none". Unless Qualcomm vs ARM (over Nuvia) is a total disaster, Qualcomm is not doing RISC-V on phones / servers. That court case is still 2-3 years in the making. What other flagship do we have left to even get close to "most"?
    - justinclift 4y ago
      > What other flagship do we have left to even get close to "most"? Everything other than apple? The world is a big place. Apple doesn't rule the world. :p
      - re-thc 4y ago
        Everything other than Apple/Qualcomm as a flagship is pretty minor. Most sell more midrange machines. I did mention Qualcomm and after paying for Nuvia I doubt they're switching.
        snvzz 4y ago
        The subject of the lawsuit? It might never see the light of day with an ARM frontend. As for the RISC-V frontend, it must already be many years underway. When they bought Nuvia, they also got their team, imho most valuable part of the acquisition. I expect Qualcomm to be among the first to provide SoCs for RISC-V based Android smartphones and RISC-V based Windows laptops. I also expect them to show up in the datacenter with competitive RISC-V based server chip offerings.
        re-thc 4y ago
        > The subject of the lawsuit? Can't use Nuvia license without paying ARM some extra fees i.e. licensing it for Qualcomm violates the "terms" says ARM.
lttlrck 4y ago
If they can eclipse Arm performance maybe. But Samsung, Qualcomm have struggled to match Apple with Arm for years... licensing isn't what's holding them back. It seems quite optimistic to think they can match even their own Arm designs in performance with RISCV in the next 5 years. Could Microsoft turn around their phone market position in that time? It seems doubtful.
- snvzz 4y ago
  Samsung, Qualcomm are perhaps among the worst examples. They stopped designing their own arm cores long ago; they use ARM's own. Instead, they are very active RISC-V members. Refer to December's RISC-V Summit, specifically, Qualcomm's talks. They are deeply committed to RISC-V, and they are being sued by ARM; No doubt they are doing everything they can to leave the legacy ISA behind as soon as humanly possible.
throwaway4good 4y ago
Sounds great but maybe also a bit optimistic.