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Forex is not a security because it’s not an investment in an enterprise but an exchange of like for like of legal tender. Otherwise the money changers at airpor

Forex is not a security because it’s not an investment in an enterprise but an exchange of like for like of legal tender. Otherwise the money changers at airports would be regulated by the SEC and they would have to register their currency exchange, and any international transaction would have to be disclosed and regulated by the sec in literally every single case. Plus the SEC has no authority either of the treasury of the US nor any other governments treasury.

cdiddy2 4y ago
so having another country declare a crypto as legal tender makes it no longer a security in the US?
- klodolph 4y ago
  Feels like the answer to these questions is just gonna be “maybe such a case in the future will make it to the courts, and the courts will have to come up with an interpretation here.” We can make guesses about what the courts will decide but how confident are we in our guesses?
  - cdiddy2 4y ago
    its already the case with el salvador and bitcoin. bitcoin wasn't really under question though for being a security so would need someone to make a smaller token legal tender
- lxgr 4y ago
  A currency being legal tender presumably has little bearing on whether the U.S. would consider it a currency. Some countries don‘t even have the concept of legal tender, while others recognize currencies they don’t issue themselves. Being issued by a sovereign state would probably be a better test.
  - kyboren 4y ago
    > Being issued by a sovereign state would probably be a better test. Aha, so they just need another layer of indirection. Acting on the imprimatur of the country's central bank, programmatically issue a sovereign CBDC upon the deposit of BTC. Keep cryptographic proof of 100% BTC reserves at all times to provide ultimate credibility for your (potentially parallel) currency (so you can keep using dollars or pesos or whatever in your real economy). Allow intra-CBDC transfers for 0.1% fee and programmatic redemptions for BTC for 0.2%. Profit. `ping -i1 www.bcr.gob.sv`...
  - Xorakios 4y ago
    The economic definition of "legal tender" is sometimes obscured in casual conversation. It isn't "issued by a sovereign state" - that's "fiat" but rather "used for paying taxes." And sometimes, like in the US, debts ("all debts foreign and domestic"). Certainly it has to vary among countries of which I am ignorant, but generally in the Anglosphere it is debts, not payments, that trigger the definition of "legal tender."
- fsckboy 4y ago
  an argument like that couldn't hurt, but if North Korea declared Apple stock to be legal tender, it wouldn't make Apple stock not a security.

cdiddy2 4y ago

so having another country declare a crypto as legal tender makes it no longer a security in the US?

klodolph 4y ago
Feels like the answer to these questions is just gonna be “maybe such a case in the future will make it to the courts, and the courts will have to come up with an interpretation here.” We can make guesses about what the courts will decide but how confident are we in our guesses?
- cdiddy2 4y ago
  its already the case with el salvador and bitcoin. bitcoin wasn't really under question though for being a security so would need someone to make a smaller token legal tender
lxgr 4y ago
A currency being legal tender presumably has little bearing on whether the U.S. would consider it a currency. Some countries don‘t even have the concept of legal tender, while others recognize currencies they don’t issue themselves. Being issued by a sovereign state would probably be a better test.
- kyboren 4y ago
  > Being issued by a sovereign state would probably be a better test. Aha, so they just need another layer of indirection. Acting on the imprimatur of the country's central bank, programmatically issue a sovereign CBDC upon the deposit of BTC. Keep cryptographic proof of 100% BTC reserves at all times to provide ultimate credibility for your (potentially parallel) currency (so you can keep using dollars or pesos or whatever in your real economy). Allow intra-CBDC transfers for 0.1% fee and programmatic redemptions for BTC for 0.2%. Profit. `ping -i1 www.bcr.gob.sv`...
- Xorakios 4y ago
  The economic definition of "legal tender" is sometimes obscured in casual conversation. It isn't "issued by a sovereign state" - that's "fiat" but rather "used for paying taxes." And sometimes, like in the US, debts ("all debts foreign and domestic"). Certainly it has to vary among countries of which I am ignorant, but generally in the Anglosphere it is debts, not payments, that trigger the definition of "legal tender."
fsckboy 4y ago
an argument like that couldn't hurt, but if North Korea declared Apple stock to be legal tender, it wouldn't make Apple stock not a security.