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Do you have anything pointing to the SEC giving actual guidance around BTC and ETH because i have never seen it. Seems strange kraken would stop supporting the

Do you have anything pointing to the SEC giving actual guidance around BTC and ETH because i have never seen it. Seems strange kraken would stop supporting the ability to stake ETH if your claim was true. Thats a ton of money for them to throw away just for fun. SEC rarely does it’s job until it’s too late and only after someone else has done all the work for them.

wmf 4y ago
Spot ETH trading is not a security, but staking ETH may be.
- yokem55 4y ago
  The only way validators who have staked eth make any earnings is if they perform their validator duties. If they don't do the work, they get penalized. If they abuse or attack the network, they get slashed. Since a validator's earnings come from their own work, the whole 'To be derived from the efforts of others' prong completely fails. There are pretty decent arguments why the other prongs fail as well. What can be a security, is if a provider offered a managed yield service promising a certian return and guaranteed instant liquidity and then used staking in the background to generate that yield. This is what got Kraken in trouble. And why they settled so easily. Where Coinbase falls is going to heavily depend on the specific facts of their service.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    > The only way validators who have staked eth make any earnings is if they perform their validator duties. If they don't do the work, they get penalized. If they abuse or attack the network, they get slashed. Since a validator's earnings come from their own work, the whole 'To be derived from the efforts of others' prong completely fails. Validating by running your own node is a-ok. Sending your tokens to Coinbase, a registered public company, who is pinky-promising you they will give you 8% returns every year, without registering this product with SEC, is not a-ok. How is that hard to understand?
yieldcrv 4y ago
The SEC is kind of relying on these appeals to authority to pile up so nobody really questions anything Basically A) Kraken’s staking service was a little different, but B) Kraken didn't fight it and the CEO resigned. Jesse was just over it and not willing to fight. Jesse grandstanded against New York’s bitlicense for nearly a decade, continued Monero support in Europe while dropping it in the UK, he’s had his fight and wants to do other things with his life. On the UK Monero stance “Unfortunately, we have to pick our battles and look out for the broader business in the country.”

wmf 4y ago

Spot ETH trading is not a security, but staking ETH may be.

yokem55 4y ago
The only way validators who have staked eth make any earnings is if they perform their validator duties. If they don't do the work, they get penalized. If they abuse or attack the network, they get slashed. Since a validator's earnings come from their own work, the whole 'To be derived from the efforts of others' prong completely fails. There are pretty decent arguments why the other prongs fail as well. What can be a security, is if a provider offered a managed yield service promising a certian return and guaranteed instant liquidity and then used staking in the background to generate that yield. This is what got Kraken in trouble. And why they settled so easily. Where Coinbase falls is going to heavily depend on the specific facts of their service.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  > The only way validators who have staked eth make any earnings is if they perform their validator duties. If they don't do the work, they get penalized. If they abuse or attack the network, they get slashed. Since a validator's earnings come from their own work, the whole 'To be derived from the efforts of others' prong completely fails. Validating by running your own node is a-ok. Sending your tokens to Coinbase, a registered public company, who is pinky-promising you they will give you 8% returns every year, without registering this product with SEC, is not a-ok. How is that hard to understand?

yieldcrv 4y ago

The SEC is kind of relying on these appeals to authority to pile up so nobody really questions anything Basically A) Kraken’s staking service was a little different, but B) Kraken didn't fight it and the CEO resigned. Jesse was just over it and not willing to fight. Jesse grandstanded against New York’s bitlicense for nearly a decade, continued Monero support in Europe while dropping it in the UK, he’s had his fight and wants to do other things with his life. On the UK Monero stance “Unfortunately, we have to pick our battles and look out for the broader business in the country.”