3 ms·

Do you think anything digital could ever become conscious?

by adroniser 4y ago

georgehill 4y ago
yes
serverholic 4y ago
[dead]
steve_adams_86 4y ago
I have a feeling it's like the saying "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". At a certain point they could become practically identical things.
Mike_12345 4y ago
The question is whether consciousness is computable. Can a Turing machine be conscious? Probably not. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25634130-100-roger-penrose-consciousness-must-be-beyond-computable-physics/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25634130-100-roger-pe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgqik6HXc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgqik6HXc0
- coldtea 4y ago
  Note that Penrose's answer is not the "consensus". Also, Penrose doesn't conver if I recall correctly about modelling the quantum part too. It's just statistics after all.
  - Mike_12345 4y ago
    So the consensus is that consciousness is computable by a Turing machine?
    - coldtea 4y ago
      The consensus is that if it's not, it's not because of the reasons Penrose gives.
      - Mike_12345 4y ago
        Is there a consensus? I haven't been able to find much else via Google search. At that level of theorizing I wouldn't expect any consensus, only original ideas from a few elite researchers.
mrandish 4y ago
Based on the wording of your question, I can't see a way today to prove it never could, therefore the answer currently must be "Yes, it may someday be possible." Note: This assumes that "conscious" as defined in this context is specific enough for the question to ever be meaningfully answered "Yes." This is a non-trivial assumption because there are criteria by which some would judge AIs as already conscious. Alternatively, some philosophers of mind have criteria by which they assert humans aren't conscious.
coldtea 4y ago
The differences between ChatGPT and a conscious human brain are not unsurmountable. Let's consider a potential future conscious AGI created by advancing from something like ChatGPT. The human brain is "always on". It's possible to have a digital system be always on, i.e. not just train once and then just respond, but constantly take new input. The human brain has way more connections/layers than ChatGPT. It's possible to imagine the digital system getting the same number of connections. The human brain gets real time sensory input. It's possible to add cameras, microphones, etc to that digital system so it gets a constant feed. Maybe even let it process what it saw during the day in a batch training/GC run (we could call that "sleep"). The human brain has a different topology. It's possible to alter the topology of a digital system neural network to mimick that, instead of using the ChatGPT topology. It's not like we're forever doomed to its simpler statistical model. But it's interesting that it already gets very significant emergent intelligence-like properties. The human brain is self-conscious. This can very well be an emergent property of the above. I think all that's needed is the ability to have some form feedback mechanism.

Do you think anything digital could ever become conscious?

georgehill 4y ago

yes

serverholic 4y ago

[dead]

steve_adams_86 4y ago

I have a feeling it's like the saying "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". At a certain point they could become practically identical things.

Mike_12345 4y ago

The question is whether consciousness is computable. Can a Turing machine be conscious? Probably not. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25634130-100-roger-penrose-consciousness-must-be-beyond-computable-physics/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25634130-100-roger-pe... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgqik6HXc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgqik6HXc0

coldtea 4y ago
Note that Penrose's answer is not the "consensus". Also, Penrose doesn't conver if I recall correctly about modelling the quantum part too. It's just statistics after all.
- Mike_12345 4y ago
  So the consensus is that consciousness is computable by a Turing machine?
  - coldtea 4y ago
    The consensus is that if it's not, it's not because of the reasons Penrose gives.
    - Mike_12345 4y ago
      Is there a consensus? I haven't been able to find much else via Google search. At that level of theorizing I wouldn't expect any consensus, only original ideas from a few elite researchers.

mrandish 4y ago

Based on the wording of your question, I can't see a way today to prove it never could, therefore the answer currently must be "Yes, it may someday be possible." Note: This assumes that "conscious" as defined in this context is specific enough for the question to ever be meaningfully answered "Yes." This is a non-trivial assumption because there are criteria by which some would judge AIs as already conscious. Alternatively, some philosophers of mind have criteria by which they assert humans aren't conscious.

coldtea 4y ago

The differences between ChatGPT and a conscious human brain are not unsurmountable. Let's consider a potential future conscious AGI created by advancing from something like ChatGPT. The human brain is "always on". It's possible to have a digital system be always on, i.e. not just train once and then just respond, but constantly take new input. The human brain has way more connections/layers than ChatGPT. It's possible to imagine the digital system getting the same number of connections. The human brain gets real time sensory input. It's possible to add cameras, microphones, etc to that digital system so it gets a constant feed. Maybe even let it process what it saw during the day in a batch training/GC run (we could call that "sleep"). The human brain has a different topology. It's possible to alter the topology of a digital system neural network to mimick that, instead of using the ChatGPT topology. It's not like we're forever doomed to its simpler statistical model. But it's interesting that it already gets very significant emergent intelligence-like properties. The human brain is self-conscious. This can very well be an emergent property of the above. I think all that's needed is the ability to have some form feedback mechanism.