5 ms·

This is a cultural, social and political issue first. economics is secondary. As a foreign-owned corporation Microsoft, Amazon, Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung, HTC, M

by beatle 15y ago

This is a cultural, social and political issue first. economics is secondary. As a foreign-owned corporation Microsoft, Amazon, Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung, HTC, Motorola, Apple do not have the authority, leverage or government support to change something that is so fundamental to China's culture and politics. This is the responsibility of Foxconn and the Chinese Government. Are we forgetting something? This is China we're talking about. Foreigners do not have any say in this.

Anechoic 15y ago
Foreigners do not have any say in this That's not true - foreigners do have a say in that we can refuse to purchase products from companies that enable this behavior (which includes Apple, Google, Dell, HP, etc etc). But we don't, because we'd rather have cheap stuff.
- beatle 15y ago
  unless you can convince millions of people and companies to stop using laptops, iPads, desktops, servers, routers, switches, Xbox, PS3, Wii, iPhone, Android phones, Blackberries, TVs, DVD/BluRay Players, heck even Ovens, Washing Machines, Refrigerators, Freezers, etc. You're not changing anything.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Pressuring Apple to do something about working conditions seems like a good strategy to me that is already working. Apple is a big, juicy and rich target and their Supplier Reports show great promise. It might not be fair on some absurd abstract level (I don’t think Apple is evil but I have no problem when Apple is attacked for the working conditions) but it seems like a strategy that is very likely to succeed. Apple can force suppliers to make laptops out of aluminium. Why shouldn’t they be able to force them to better working conditions.
georgemcbay 15y ago
"Foreigners do not have any say in this." That's a load of horseshit. Foreigners were the lever used to end the Apartheid regime in South Africa due to the divestment movement which cut off economic support to the South African government, effectively forcing it to change. This happened not only against the wishes of the South African government but also against the wishes of much of the then-American government (under Reagan). Of course foreigners have a say in this, if they have the will to act upon their principles.
- beatle 15y ago
  That's assuming China = South Africa. China is way bigger and different than South Africa.
- rsynnott 15y ago
  > This happened not only against the wishes of the South African government but also against the wishes of much of the then-American government (under Reagan). This is a somewhat idealistic view. South Africa only really came under serious pain when _countries_ embargoed them, particularly the UK and then the US (Desmond Tutu went to Washington and guilted the US government into producing a veto-proof majority for the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act; Reagan having vetoed it first timed round).

by beatle 15y ago

Anechoic 15y ago

Foreigners do not have any say in this That's not true - foreigners do have a say in that we can refuse to purchase products from companies that enable this behavior (which includes Apple, Google, Dell, HP, etc etc). But we don't, because we'd rather have cheap stuff.

beatle 15y ago
unless you can convince millions of people and companies to stop using laptops, iPads, desktops, servers, routers, switches, Xbox, PS3, Wii, iPhone, Android phones, Blackberries, TVs, DVD/BluRay Players, heck even Ovens, Washing Machines, Refrigerators, Freezers, etc. You're not changing anything.
- ugh 15y ago
  Pressuring Apple to do something about working conditions seems like a good strategy to me that is already working. Apple is a big, juicy and rich target and their Supplier Reports show great promise. It might not be fair on some absurd abstract level (I don’t think Apple is evil but I have no problem when Apple is attacked for the working conditions) but it seems like a strategy that is very likely to succeed. Apple can force suppliers to make laptops out of aluminium. Why shouldn’t they be able to force them to better working conditions.

georgemcbay 15y ago

"Foreigners do not have any say in this." That's a load of horseshit. Foreigners were the lever used to end the Apartheid regime in South Africa due to the divestment movement which cut off economic support to the South African government, effectively forcing it to change. This happened not only against the wishes of the South African government but also against the wishes of much of the then-American government (under Reagan). Of course foreigners have a say in this, if they have the will to act upon their principles.

beatle 15y ago
That's assuming China = South Africa. China is way bigger and different than South Africa.
rsynnott 15y ago
> This happened not only against the wishes of the South African government but also against the wishes of much of the then-American government (under Reagan). This is a somewhat idealistic view. South Africa only really came under serious pain when _countries_ embargoed them, particularly the UK and then the US (Desmond Tutu went to Washington and guilted the US government into producing a veto-proof majority for the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act; Reagan having vetoed it first timed round).