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Productivity increases may be mostly due more to improvements in capital vs improvements in labor, though. If I make my peasants plow the field by hand, and th

Productivity increases may be mostly due more to improvements in capital vs improvements in labor, though. If I make my peasants plow the field by hand, and then buy a horse, I'm not going to pay the peasants more for that. Rather I'm going to tell them they should be glad they are able to use the horse, as their muscles are less strained. I may even pay them less as it's less intensive.

wolverine876 4y ago
That assumes possibly the most ancient, menial task, and assumes the peasants always do it the same way (i.e., it circularly assumes that labor productivity doesn't increase). Educating and training people, giving them general and specific skills, makes them much more productive.
- notch898a 4y ago
  I'd argue the educational gains in the past 30 years have been negative. The markets appear to indicate the worker value hasn't improved much lately, but capital has. >Educating and training people, giving them general and specific skills, makes them much more productive. And yet if you talk to almost any American, they will explain that the educational system has gone downhill. If the product produced through education is of lower quality, I would not expect the wage demanded to be higher.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Lots of people saying something doesn't at all make it true; in fact, it should make you skeptical that they are following a mis/disinformation herd and don't know what they are saying. Education isn't the only source of skills, of course. There is training, and also people are far better informed now, for example, due the the Internet (or disinformed). Even if the quality of education is reduced, it's not nearly zero. Partly because of education (and health, freedom, political stability, etc.) we are far more productive than illiterate neolithic peasants farmers. Also, the quality could go down, but may more people could be educated, resulting in a large net gain.
    - notch898a 4y ago
      >Also, the quality could go down, but may more people could be educated, resulting in a large net gain. That's an aggregate gain, why are you comparing this to per capita gains. >Even if the quality of education is reduced, it's not nearly zero. Partly because of education (and health, freedom, political stability, etc.) we are far more productive than illiterate neolithic peasants farmers. Worker earns more real value than neolithic farmer, but I don't think anyone was saying they weren't. >Education isn't the only source of skills, of course. There is training, and also people are far better informed now, for example, due the the Internet (or disinformed). There was also training in the 1960s and 1970s. The median worker likely has more optionality to become an above median worker now, although whether the median worker themselves has better training today than in the past decades is debatable. >Lots of people saying something doesn't at all make it true; in fact, it should make you skeptical that they are following a mis/disinformation herd and don't know what they are saying. This is true, but if everyone is saying US high schools produce dogshit, the world is not going to be inclined to pay a reputational premium to US workers graduating from high school. Perception is part of value, and in markets indeed the buyers believing something has value creates real positive demand. This can be seen elsewhere i.e. felons get depressed wages, even if their conviction was bogus or not something that effects their work. The very fact our education is seen as going downhill creates lower value/quality for our workers -- so as you can see what I said was highly relevant.

wolverine876 4y ago

That assumes possibly the most ancient, menial task, and assumes the peasants always do it the same way (i.e., it circularly assumes that labor productivity doesn't increase). Educating and training people, giving them general and specific skills, makes them much more productive.

notch898a 4y ago
I'd argue the educational gains in the past 30 years have been negative. The markets appear to indicate the worker value hasn't improved much lately, but capital has. >Educating and training people, giving them general and specific skills, makes them much more productive. And yet if you talk to almost any American, they will explain that the educational system has gone downhill. If the product produced through education is of lower quality, I would not expect the wage demanded to be higher.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Lots of people saying something doesn't at all make it true; in fact, it should make you skeptical that they are following a mis/disinformation herd and don't know what they are saying. Education isn't the only source of skills, of course. There is training, and also people are far better informed now, for example, due the the Internet (or disinformed). Even if the quality of education is reduced, it's not nearly zero. Partly because of education (and health, freedom, political stability, etc.) we are far more productive than illiterate neolithic peasants farmers. Also, the quality could go down, but may more people could be educated, resulting in a large net gain.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    >Also, the quality could go down, but may more people could be educated, resulting in a large net gain. That's an aggregate gain, why are you comparing this to per capita gains. >Even if the quality of education is reduced, it's not nearly zero. Partly because of education (and health, freedom, political stability, etc.) we are far more productive than illiterate neolithic peasants farmers. Worker earns more real value than neolithic farmer, but I don't think anyone was saying they weren't. >Education isn't the only source of skills, of course. There is training, and also people are far better informed now, for example, due the the Internet (or disinformed). There was also training in the 1960s and 1970s. The median worker likely has more optionality to become an above median worker now, although whether the median worker themselves has better training today than in the past decades is debatable. >Lots of people saying something doesn't at all make it true; in fact, it should make you skeptical that they are following a mis/disinformation herd and don't know what they are saying. This is true, but if everyone is saying US high schools produce dogshit, the world is not going to be inclined to pay a reputational premium to US workers graduating from high school. Perception is part of value, and in markets indeed the buyers believing something has value creates real positive demand. This can be seen elsewhere i.e. felons get depressed wages, even if their conviction was bogus or not something that effects their work. The very fact our education is seen as going downhill creates lower value/quality for our workers -- so as you can see what I said was highly relevant.