6 ms·

I unschool my 5 kids. This is how much it costs

23 points by rosiesherry 4y ago

newaccount74 4y ago
I have a lot of respect for people who manage to educate their kids themselves. I couldn't do it. My kids don't listen to me when I try to explain something, but they do listen to their teachers in school. I'm happy I don't have to spend all day with my kids. I love them a lot, and I think I'm doing a decent job as a parent, but I think input from other people is also worth a lot -- especially from people who went to university to become teachers.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  The idea of leaving my kids with some stranger for 6hrs a day, who may or may not have ulterior motives behind what they are telling my children, is kind of terrifying. There was a scandal in our school district recently where an assembly included a drag show that students were forced to watch and parents were not notified of ahead of time. I'll take my chances teaching them calculus instead. I picked it up eventually they will too.
  - codeonline 4y ago
    There is so much about this comment that I disagree with that's its hard to know where to start. I'll choose just one point, hopefully the least contentious. Your child isn't being educated by 'some stranger'. They are being educated by someone with the required level of educational attainment themselves. There is a robust regulatory framework in place to ensure this as well as to address issues relating to the physical school environs and the curriculum taught. They have passed the necessary background checks and continue to do so. Those chose to become educators, at time and expense to themselves. I could go on but I won't labour the point
    - rosiesherry 4y ago
      This doesn't address the issue of whether teaching the way schools teach is actually not very effective. Self directed learning (which is basically unschooling) is so powerful and it's not uncommon for kids to go from zero reading to reading thick books (like Harry Potter, for example), within 6 months. Kids/people have to want to learn and it's hard to manage that in a school setting. I know as an adult that I can't learn things that I'm not interested in, it's the same for kids. And the curriculum is generally not very interesting.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        > This doesn't address the issue of whether teaching the way schools teach is actually not very effective. Learning to see through bullshit, and play along enough to get by has been a valuable skill in my life.
        rosiesherry 4y ago
        It can also lead to massive burnout and mental health problems.
    - throwntoday 4y ago
      >Your child isn't being educated by 'some stranger'. This person is not my friend or family. They are a stranger. How they conduct themselves during an annual parent-teacher conference, PTA meetings, etc. is no indication of their behavior when I am not around. >There is a robust regulatory framework in place to ensure this as well as to address issues relating to the physical school environs and the curriculum taught. That does not stop them from inserting their own biases or whatever nonsense ideology they want to peddle. If what you said was even true, there wouldn't be lousy teachers that make the process of learning more difficult for students.
    - subsaharancoder 4y ago
      Passing a background check and getting the required level of educational attainment at great expense does not give the teachers the right to exclude the parents from key decision making. We really need to get past the deification of university trained teachers as though they hold mystical insight into the child's mild beyond the knowledge and grasp of the parents.
  - animitronix 4y ago
    Then pull your kids, homeschool them, and stop complaining.
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    What's wrong with drag shows? At least, beyond being overblown hysteria pushed by Fox News?
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  Once you step outside of the system you can start to see the flaws it has. My kids still get out. They are still taught by qualified professionals. It's just on our terms and in environments that feel healthier to us. We're not with them all the time, but we definitely don't get as much free time as those that go to school.
owenpalmer 4y ago
Is there anything you think they should learn about even if they don't find it interesting?
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  Learning to read and basic maths. For maths, but they pick it up pretty easily in day to day conversations and activities (ipad and gaming helps, imho) My 11 year old went to school part time, lasted half a term, but his maths skills were on par with the kids there, if not better. He had never done any formal maths. I only speak on behalf of our family, everyone has different experiences, but it's still important to recognise that life and education can be done differently.
  - cathdrlbizzare 4y ago
    It depends on the type of school. I was 1-2 years ahead of public school coming from private school around 6th grade (11-12yo).
- cathdrlbizzare 4y ago
  Deep treatment of (in)famous and obscure historical events. Classic literature. Controversial literature. Philosophy. A nonnative language, preferably Mandarin. Phonics. Dialectical method exercises in critical thinking.
reacharavindh 4y ago
> The important thing to remember here is that our kids have opted in for all these activities. We only do what they are interested in. And this is what makes unschooling beautiful. This is the part that’s scary due to selective bias. I had no clue whatsoever about most things I learnt in school until I uhmm learned them. If I were given a choice whether to spend hours learning integral calculus or partial differential equations, I’d have most certainly said no! But, at the end of it I realised they were the foundations for something greater - projectile calculations with integral calculus. Education teaches one to think. Some level of wild walks in the subject is necessary in my opinion.
- musicale 4y ago
  > If I were given a choice whether to spend hours learning integral calculus or partial differential equations, I’d have most certainly said no! I'd have said... yes? Unfortunately school greatly reduced my enthusiasm for certain subjects – and for reading books. And my enthusiasm for computing was further diminished when it became something I had to do to survive.
  - eternityforest 4y ago
    That's one data point. I definitely wouldn't have said yes. I didn't even think math would still be useful today(And in fact, it mostly isn't for non-STEM and non-business people). I didn't know getting a degree would be anything I'd ever want, self taught programmers seemed to do better back then. I was not in any place to predict the future, nor was I ever one of those people strongly motivated by ideas and abstractions for their own sake.
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  And there's not selective bias in the curriculum? It's also funny how my kids outwit me and know so many things that I don't know about. And how I've gone on to specialise in what drives me, and that just works. Or how my eldest self taught himself maths to uni level and is now doing maths at uni.
- ultrarunner 4y ago
piyh 4y ago
Did the fundies ruin the word homeschool so much that it's called unschooling now?
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  Unschoolng is a type of homeschooling where we don't follow a curriculum. Homeschooling still very much exists.
- Rediscover 4y ago
  I first came across unschooling in 1991 via "the Teenage Liberation Handbook (how to quit school and get a real life and education)" by Grace Llewellyn. The updated 30th anniversary edition came out a few years ago. Wonderful book, I've given out many copies as gifts. Often it can be found online as PDF.
- yucky 4y ago
  It sounds like Unschooling is what used to be called Deschooling 50 years ago[1], and is very different from homeschooling in that homeschooling uses a government prescribed curriculum that is administered by parents/guardians but is still pretty much the Prussian model of education, at home. The Prussian model is essentially geared towards creating good little workers/consumers with little critical thinking skills, whereas this mode of education is more fluid, to say the least. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschooling_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschooling_Society
  - jonny_eh 4y ago
    Is it in the same vein as Montessori?
cathdrlbizzare 4y ago
My main concern is whether the homeschooled kids are disadvantaged by the lack of the vital social component of school. I’ve met a number of homeschooled kids but they always seem to have limited socialization opportunities.
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  I'm concerned about schooled kids not socializing outside of their direct age group :) There's been plenty written about how unhealthy and damaging it can be to only be in a peer group of people your own age. Honestly, the socialization is a myth. Homeschoolers socialize with all ages, that's healthy and educational from a huge amount of perspectives. e.g: kids can be become leaders by supporting younger or less able kids.
  - nickpsecurity 4y ago
    This topic has come up repeatedly in my circles in the past few months. When I asked people, they noticed at least these benefits of each: 1. Mixed-age groups let you hear perspectives across age groups. You might also have one group helping another in their weak areas. That didn't happen as much in same-age groups I saw. 2. Same-age groups give you people who can relate to you and your life. That might not exist at all in mixed-age groups depending on the age distribution. Some people in mixed-age groups told me they switched to same-age groups for that reason. I'd be interested in looking at any studies on this topic. Since you mentioned "plenty written," do you have any links we can look at?
- nraf 4y ago
  Just an anecdote so take it for what it is. Sharing as this is something that used to concern me. We home school our 9 year (autistic) child and he's more socialable than I am (I was schooled prep to 12 at a relatively expensive private school). Just the other we were at a wildlife sanctuary and he ran off in the bird enclosure. I went to check up on him and found with one of the keepers feeding live worms to the birds (one of a number of interactions he had). Whereever we go, he has a tendency to walk up to workers and start conversations. I'm not sure how much his autism diagnosis is at play, but he does seem to lack a lot of the inhibition and intimidation in interacting that a lot of other students his age display.
theonething 4y ago
> sometimes drool at private schools What do you find attractive about private schools vs public?
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  Depending on the school, the smaller settings, the different and wider range of activities and support available. I'm particularly attracted to the Montessori way.
- tallthumbs 4y ago
  I find the sentiment behind these kinds of comments absolutely baffling. In my experience private schooling is so vastly better than public I can’t conceive of how you’d choose the latter for any reason other than expense or ideology.
  - stuaxo 4y ago
    People that come out of schools are different though. I could send my daughter to private school, but would prefer for her to be a part of the rest of society. Inequality becomes embedded when we separate ourselves from each other, and money is one way people are enabled to. In the UK, none of the people in charge have actually used the systems they are in charge of and schooling is just one small part. If you travel on our rail system for longer distances you'll notice that half the train is virtually empty and reserved for 1st class tickets. If you usually travel in the rest of the train and get one of those tickets it's amazing how isolated from the general problems caused by this system you are. Yes - the private school system has advantages; they actually aren't in the level of education, but in the connections that people make along the way, in a way it's a very small taste of how corrupt the system is. There are of course disadvantages to "private schools" (called public schools in the UK for historical reasons), there is a real hierarchy and bullying based on how rich you are, it all enforces the class system that we have. Lord of the flies was not a commentary on what happens when children are left on an island, but directly on what happens when pupils of that private educations system "public schools" of the UK, are left on an island. Right now we have a government that is full of exactly that type of person - it's worked out very badly, why on earth would we want more of that sort of thing ?
pratikshadake 4y ago
All that is fine, but why would anyone in their sane mind have 5 freaking children? Why are Americans obsessed with having such big families? Do you keep spare kids for ghosts to haunt? (like they show in all horror movies) In India, we call decision of having more than 2 kids insane & cost even though raising a child in India is much lesser. What am I missing? It's a big cultural shock.
- tpreetham 4y ago
  I doubt if that's the norm. It's their choice, perhaps they enjoy raising children.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  It depends on your situation. If you have two full time working parents then two kids is already a lot. Especially if you have your first kid in your thirties. If you have two parents working part time, maybe in jobs with flexible hours, and grandparents who can help out, and day care / schooling is affordable in your area, and you start having kids in your twenties, then having more kids can work.
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  I'm not American. Be careful about jumping to conclusions. Some people have no kids. Some people have lots. Does it really matter?
  - bvanderveen 4y ago
    Long as you're not concerned about your carbon footprint!
- zakki 4y ago
  Are you sure there is no family in India having 5 children?
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  How did India get so many people if each couple only produced 2 people each generation?
Melingo 4y ago
I saw a fun docu in Germany afrom such families. The boy in the group just played games. Non of them wanted to use the music instruments the parents bought.
- rosiesherry 4y ago
  Parents should've asked the kids if they wanted the instruments. My son gamed alot for 2-3 years, he's moved on to focusing on maths, philosophy and fitness. He puts me to shame tbh.
  - Melingo 4y ago
    In my opinion parents should not just ask kids. They should show them new things and teach them some basics.

23 points by rosiesherry 4y ago

I have a lot of respect for people who manage to educate their kids themselves. I couldn't do it. My kids don't listen to me when I try to explain something, but they do listen to their teachers in school. I'm happy I don't have to spend all day with my kids. I love them a lot, and I think I'm doing a decent job as a parent, but I think input from other people is also worth a lot -- especially from people who went to university to become teachers.

throwntoday 4y ago
The idea of leaving my kids with some stranger for 6hrs a day, who may or may not have ulterior motives behind what they are telling my children, is kind of terrifying. There was a scandal in our school district recently where an assembly included a drag show that students were forced to watch and parents were not notified of ahead of time. I'll take my chances teaching them calculus instead. I picked it up eventually they will too.
- codeonline 4y ago
  There is so much about this comment that I disagree with that's its hard to know where to start. I'll choose just one point, hopefully the least contentious. Your child isn't being educated by 'some stranger'. They are being educated by someone with the required level of educational attainment themselves. There is a robust regulatory framework in place to ensure this as well as to address issues relating to the physical school environs and the curriculum taught. They have passed the necessary background checks and continue to do so. Those chose to become educators, at time and expense to themselves. I could go on but I won't labour the point
  - rosiesherry 4y ago
    This doesn't address the issue of whether teaching the way schools teach is actually not very effective. Self directed learning (which is basically unschooling) is so powerful and it's not uncommon for kids to go from zero reading to reading thick books (like Harry Potter, for example), within 6 months. Kids/people have to want to learn and it's hard to manage that in a school setting. I know as an adult that I can't learn things that I'm not interested in, it's the same for kids. And the curriculum is generally not very interesting.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      > This doesn't address the issue of whether teaching the way schools teach is actually not very effective. Learning to see through bullshit, and play along enough to get by has been a valuable skill in my life.
      - rosiesherry 4y ago
        It can also lead to massive burnout and mental health problems.
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    >Your child isn't being educated by 'some stranger'. This person is not my friend or family. They are a stranger. How they conduct themselves during an annual parent-teacher conference, PTA meetings, etc. is no indication of their behavior when I am not around. >There is a robust regulatory framework in place to ensure this as well as to address issues relating to the physical school environs and the curriculum taught. That does not stop them from inserting their own biases or whatever nonsense ideology they want to peddle. If what you said was even true, there wouldn't be lousy teachers that make the process of learning more difficult for students.
  - subsaharancoder 4y ago
    Passing a background check and getting the required level of educational attainment at great expense does not give the teachers the right to exclude the parents from key decision making. We really need to get past the deification of university trained teachers as though they hold mystical insight into the child's mild beyond the knowledge and grasp of the parents.
- animitronix 4y ago
  Then pull your kids, homeschool them, and stop complaining.
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  What's wrong with drag shows? At least, beyond being overblown hysteria pushed by Fox News?
rosiesherry 4y ago
Once you step outside of the system you can start to see the flaws it has. My kids still get out. They are still taught by qualified professionals. It's just on our terms and in environments that feel healthier to us. We're not with them all the time, but we definitely don't get as much free time as those that go to school.

owenpalmer 4y ago

Is there anything you think they should learn about even if they don't find it interesting?

rosiesherry 4y ago
Learning to read and basic maths. For maths, but they pick it up pretty easily in day to day conversations and activities (ipad and gaming helps, imho) My 11 year old went to school part time, lasted half a term, but his maths skills were on par with the kids there, if not better. He had never done any formal maths. I only speak on behalf of our family, everyone has different experiences, but it's still important to recognise that life and education can be done differently.
- cathdrlbizzare 4y ago
  It depends on the type of school. I was 1-2 years ahead of public school coming from private school around 6th grade (11-12yo).
cathdrlbizzare 4y ago
Deep treatment of (in)famous and obscure historical events. Classic literature. Controversial literature. Philosophy. A nonnative language, preferably Mandarin. Phonics. Dialectical method exercises in critical thinking.

reacharavindh 4y ago

> The important thing to remember here is that our kids have opted in for all these activities. We only do what they are interested in. And this is what makes unschooling beautiful. This is the part that’s scary due to selective bias. I had no clue whatsoever about most things I learnt in school until I uhmm learned them. If I were given a choice whether to spend hours learning integral calculus or partial differential equations, I’d have most certainly said no! But, at the end of it I realised they were the foundations for something greater - projectile calculations with integral calculus. Education teaches one to think. Some level of wild walks in the subject is necessary in my opinion.

musicale 4y ago
> If I were given a choice whether to spend hours learning integral calculus or partial differential equations, I’d have most certainly said no! I'd have said... yes? Unfortunately school greatly reduced my enthusiasm for certain subjects – and for reading books. And my enthusiasm for computing was further diminished when it became something I had to do to survive.
- eternityforest 4y ago
  That's one data point. I definitely wouldn't have said yes. I didn't even think math would still be useful today(And in fact, it mostly isn't for non-STEM and non-business people). I didn't know getting a degree would be anything I'd ever want, self taught programmers seemed to do better back then. I was not in any place to predict the future, nor was I ever one of those people strongly motivated by ideas and abstractions for their own sake.
rosiesherry 4y ago
And there's not selective bias in the curriculum? It's also funny how my kids outwit me and know so many things that I don't know about. And how I've gone on to specialise in what drives me, and that just works. Or how my eldest self taught himself maths to uni level and is now doing maths at uni.
ultrarunner 4y ago

piyh 4y ago

Did the fundies ruin the word homeschool so much that it's called unschooling now?

rosiesherry 4y ago
Unschoolng is a type of homeschooling where we don't follow a curriculum. Homeschooling still very much exists.
Rediscover 4y ago
I first came across unschooling in 1991 via "the Teenage Liberation Handbook (how to quit school and get a real life and education)" by Grace Llewellyn. The updated 30th anniversary edition came out a few years ago. Wonderful book, I've given out many copies as gifts. Often it can be found online as PDF.
yucky 4y ago
It sounds like Unschooling is what used to be called Deschooling 50 years ago[1], and is very different from homeschooling in that homeschooling uses a government prescribed curriculum that is administered by parents/guardians but is still pretty much the Prussian model of education, at home. The Prussian model is essentially geared towards creating good little workers/consumers with little critical thinking skills, whereas this mode of education is more fluid, to say the least. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschooling_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschooling_Society
- jonny_eh 4y ago
  Is it in the same vein as Montessori?

cathdrlbizzare 4y ago

My main concern is whether the homeschooled kids are disadvantaged by the lack of the vital social component of school. I’ve met a number of homeschooled kids but they always seem to have limited socialization opportunities.

rosiesherry 4y ago
I'm concerned about schooled kids not socializing outside of their direct age group :) There's been plenty written about how unhealthy and damaging it can be to only be in a peer group of people your own age. Honestly, the socialization is a myth. Homeschoolers socialize with all ages, that's healthy and educational from a huge amount of perspectives. e.g: kids can be become leaders by supporting younger or less able kids.
- nickpsecurity 4y ago
  This topic has come up repeatedly in my circles in the past few months. When I asked people, they noticed at least these benefits of each: 1. Mixed-age groups let you hear perspectives across age groups. You might also have one group helping another in their weak areas. That didn't happen as much in same-age groups I saw. 2. Same-age groups give you people who can relate to you and your life. That might not exist at all in mixed-age groups depending on the age distribution. Some people in mixed-age groups told me they switched to same-age groups for that reason. I'd be interested in looking at any studies on this topic. Since you mentioned "plenty written," do you have any links we can look at?
nraf 4y ago
Just an anecdote so take it for what it is. Sharing as this is something that used to concern me. We home school our 9 year (autistic) child and he's more socialable than I am (I was schooled prep to 12 at a relatively expensive private school). Just the other we were at a wildlife sanctuary and he ran off in the bird enclosure. I went to check up on him and found with one of the keepers feeding live worms to the birds (one of a number of interactions he had). Whereever we go, he has a tendency to walk up to workers and start conversations. I'm not sure how much his autism diagnosis is at play, but he does seem to lack a lot of the inhibition and intimidation in interacting that a lot of other students his age display.

theonething 4y ago

> sometimes drool at private schools What do you find attractive about private schools vs public?

rosiesherry 4y ago
Depending on the school, the smaller settings, the different and wider range of activities and support available. I'm particularly attracted to the Montessori way.
tallthumbs 4y ago
I find the sentiment behind these kinds of comments absolutely baffling. In my experience private schooling is so vastly better than public I can’t conceive of how you’d choose the latter for any reason other than expense or ideology.
- stuaxo 4y ago
  People that come out of schools are different though. I could send my daughter to private school, but would prefer for her to be a part of the rest of society. Inequality becomes embedded when we separate ourselves from each other, and money is one way people are enabled to. In the UK, none of the people in charge have actually used the systems they are in charge of and schooling is just one small part. If you travel on our rail system for longer distances you'll notice that half the train is virtually empty and reserved for 1st class tickets. If you usually travel in the rest of the train and get one of those tickets it's amazing how isolated from the general problems caused by this system you are. Yes - the private school system has advantages; they actually aren't in the level of education, but in the connections that people make along the way, in a way it's a very small taste of how corrupt the system is. There are of course disadvantages to "private schools" (called public schools in the UK for historical reasons), there is a real hierarchy and bullying based on how rich you are, it all enforces the class system that we have. Lord of the flies was not a commentary on what happens when children are left on an island, but directly on what happens when pupils of that private educations system "public schools" of the UK, are left on an island. Right now we have a government that is full of exactly that type of person - it's worked out very badly, why on earth would we want more of that sort of thing ?

pratikshadake 4y ago

All that is fine, but why would anyone in their sane mind have 5 freaking children? Why are Americans obsessed with having such big families? Do you keep spare kids for ghosts to haunt? (like they show in all horror movies) In India, we call decision of having more than 2 kids insane & cost even though raising a child in India is much lesser. What am I missing? It's a big cultural shock.

tpreetham 4y ago
I doubt if that's the norm. It's their choice, perhaps they enjoy raising children.
newaccount74 4y ago
It depends on your situation. If you have two full time working parents then two kids is already a lot. Especially if you have your first kid in your thirties. If you have two parents working part time, maybe in jobs with flexible hours, and grandparents who can help out, and day care / schooling is affordable in your area, and you start having kids in your twenties, then having more kids can work.
rosiesherry 4y ago
I'm not American. Be careful about jumping to conclusions. Some people have no kids. Some people have lots. Does it really matter?
- bvanderveen 4y ago
  Long as you're not concerned about your carbon footprint!
zakki 4y ago
Are you sure there is no family in India having 5 children?
jonny_eh 4y ago
How did India get so many people if each couple only produced 2 people each generation?

Melingo 4y ago

I saw a fun docu in Germany afrom such families. The boy in the group just played games. Non of them wanted to use the music instruments the parents bought.

rosiesherry 4y ago
Parents should've asked the kids if they wanted the instruments. My son gamed alot for 2-3 years, he's moved on to focusing on maths, philosophy and fitness. He puts me to shame tbh.
- Melingo 4y ago
  In my opinion parents should not just ask kids. They should show them new things and teach them some basics.