5 ms·

Personal politics are seeping their way into nearly everything…

by pipeline_peak 4y ago

Rhapso 4y ago
Everything already was personal politics, it's just becoming politics you don't like seeing there.
- adql 4y ago
  Nope, good authors can make perfectly separate fantasy world politics despise their own views. This isn't even politics per se, just feel good activism, the "I'm helping", while doing absolutely nothing that helps in the topic). Equivalent to thoughts and prayers.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    What is the part of this product that you have an issue with? "...dividing its pages between offering background on the real-life animals - and the reasons for their disappearance - and providing versions playable in D&D 5E and other RPGs." Is learning why animals are no longer around controversial? This book seems like it does in fact teach facts and isn't doing absolutely nothing as you put it.
    - ticviking 4y ago
      > What is the part of this product that you have an issue with? What part of any of this effort improves either the gameplay of backers or the state of conservation? There is no need in any edition of the game for another book of 100 monsters. I already have hundreds of CR <1 small birds and mammals, and similar numbers of herd animals and apex predators. Even with "reimagined powers" it takes about 30 seconds to throw an extra power on a monster even in extra crunchy editions of the game. My major question with any gaming product is what fun does this bring to my gaming table? And I don't see any fun that it'll add, at least not to my game. Most of what I see is some decent swag and some indulgences someone could buy for their feelings of guilt at conspicuous consumption in the hobby.
      - bastawhiz 4y ago
        You aren't forced to buy it. Folks who find this interesting and educational can buy it. Producing this doesn't take anything away from you. And the proceeds are donated to the Center for Biological Diversity, which feels like a pretty not terrible way for the money to be spent.
  - misnome 4y ago
    > Nope, good authors can make perfectly separate fantasy world politics despise their own views. So... your issue is that someone... somewhere... has written a book... including a cause they believe in?
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    What fantasy works are you referring to? Whatever you have in mind, I can guarantee you it has more real-world political inspiration than you think. You can ignore it (and maybe even the author denies it like Tolkien) but our physical world and experiences is what defines the fantasy we write. It shapes our understanding of power and character, which is why fantastical stories vary so wildly in different contexts. This doesn't even strike me as activism, unless you're uncomfortable with looking at a Dodo illustration in your D&D campaign. This is a book with extra monster ideas, some of which are inspired by animals you will never see. Even devoid of empathetic value towards those dead animals, you gotta admit it's pretty metal to fight an animal that doesn't exist... anymore.
    - hgsgm 4y ago
      Tolkien only denied interpretations he disagree with. He made no secret about the politics of the books.
adql 4y ago
I'm sure it makes authors feel really good about themselves, even tho it changes absolutely nothing.
smoldesu 4y ago
Honestly, I think this is great. The personal politicking of how D&D should/shouldn't be played is annoying, but this isn't really any of that. It's a deconstructive fantasy manual using the real world as inspiration for mildly thought-provoking world development. If using extinct animals as inspiration for monsters is a crime, then Gygax should be prosecuted first: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Saber-toothed_tiger https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Saber-toothed_tiger
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > The personal politicking of how D&D should/shouldn't be played is annoying And deeply stupid. Don't like a change? Ignore it. Don't like something that's included in RAW or official sourcebooks? Ignore it. There are no Correctness Police at your table, you can do WTFever you (and your players) want. Want obsidian-black always-evil Drow? Go nuts, nobody cares. Think that's horribly racist? Make them purple and not alignment-locked. Hell, make them albino. No one will stop you. Most of the politics-related changes have been really, really easy to just house-rule out of existence, and most of the things that bothered people about older editions or settings are similarly easy to modify without having to extensively change other parts of the system. It's just a bunch of noise that barely matters at all. Don't like this extinct creatures manual? Just... don't buy it or use it as a source for your games then? It's so easy. And yeah, dinosaurs and mammoths and shit have been in D&D basically forever. Some of its major influences were "lost world" fiction and Conan-style prehistorical fantasy, so of course those are in it. D&D doesn't draw primarily from e.g. Tolkien-style high fantasy where dinosaurs and such might seem out-of-place. A source book for extinct animals for D&D falls solidly within the spectrum of "totally normal D&D stuff".
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Agreed. It's entirely caused by two parties fighting one another: - The authoritarian Wizards/Hasbro ownership that wants to commercialize and streamline the image of D&D and - The ass-wack community of people playing who have no intention of changing the way they play Neither of these parties are particularly wrong, but they'd be better off without each other. Hasbro should focus less on appeasing older wargamers and let their streamlined product serve as an introduction for younger players, and community shouldn't worship WotC for repeatedly failing them. At the end of the day, the best solution is like you say - dust off your favorite edition rulebook and write everything from there. It's all just fantasy, you can mix-and-match whatever you want. However, the best fantasy isn't passive or ambient writing. It's thought-provoking stuff that uses powerful analogies to tell a powerful story. Shying away from real-world inspiration or conflict is the equivalent to failing as a fantasy author (in my book).
nickthegreek 4y ago
This is a 3rd party product... exactly the kinda of place you would find a niche product that might appeal to "personal politics". You used to not be able to use the word D&D when promoting your 3rd party product, only the term 5E. I wonder if this has changed due to the recent SRD change. I thought I would like that, but this initially confused me as I thought this was an official D&D product.
eficek 4y ago
[flagged]
- pipeline_peak 4y ago
  [flagged]
- gordian-mind 4y ago
  What a horribly dehumanizing answer, shame on you.
crazydoggers 4y ago
There’s politics and opinions that we all can disagree on… and then there’s cold hard facts of reality. This is the latter. Currently the extinction rate is 100-1000 times higher than the normal background extinction level. [1] This is just drawing on reality for inspiration. Not some sort of political credo. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
bastawhiz 4y ago
What about this is political? The book is fact checked for accuracy. The animals listed as extinct are extinct. There's no commentary on the factors that led to the extinctions of these species (though they're not unknown). The only thing political about this is that some people would rather not think about the consequences of human actions. It's intensely political to say that we shouldn't care about or raise awareness of human-caused extinction.
bovermyer 4y ago
Politics is the affairs and events associated with governments. Too many people conflate "worldview" and "politics." By this comment, I assume you mean the authors are pushing a specifically political agenda, intended to change government or influence government policy. I'd love to hear you explain how that is the case.
- LoganDark 4y ago
  > intended to change government or influence government policy Such as protecting endangered species?
  - bovermyer 4y ago
    This book is intended to educate people on anthropogenic extinction. Nowhere does it say it intends to influence government policy. The government is not the only way to protect endangered species.

Personal politics are seeping their way into nearly everything…

Rhapso 4y ago

Everything already was personal politics, it's just becoming politics you don't like seeing there.

adql 4y ago
Nope, good authors can make perfectly separate fantasy world politics despise their own views. This isn't even politics per se, just feel good activism, the "I'm helping", while doing absolutely nothing that helps in the topic). Equivalent to thoughts and prayers.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  What is the part of this product that you have an issue with? "...dividing its pages between offering background on the real-life animals - and the reasons for their disappearance - and providing versions playable in D&D 5E and other RPGs." Is learning why animals are no longer around controversial? This book seems like it does in fact teach facts and isn't doing absolutely nothing as you put it.
  - ticviking 4y ago
    > What is the part of this product that you have an issue with? What part of any of this effort improves either the gameplay of backers or the state of conservation? There is no need in any edition of the game for another book of 100 monsters. I already have hundreds of CR <1 small birds and mammals, and similar numbers of herd animals and apex predators. Even with "reimagined powers" it takes about 30 seconds to throw an extra power on a monster even in extra crunchy editions of the game. My major question with any gaming product is what fun does this bring to my gaming table? And I don't see any fun that it'll add, at least not to my game. Most of what I see is some decent swag and some indulgences someone could buy for their feelings of guilt at conspicuous consumption in the hobby.
    - bastawhiz 4y ago
      You aren't forced to buy it. Folks who find this interesting and educational can buy it. Producing this doesn't take anything away from you. And the proceeds are donated to the Center for Biological Diversity, which feels like a pretty not terrible way for the money to be spent.
- misnome 4y ago
  > Nope, good authors can make perfectly separate fantasy world politics despise their own views. So... your issue is that someone... somewhere... has written a book... including a cause they believe in?
- smoldesu 4y ago
  What fantasy works are you referring to? Whatever you have in mind, I can guarantee you it has more real-world political inspiration than you think. You can ignore it (and maybe even the author denies it like Tolkien) but our physical world and experiences is what defines the fantasy we write. It shapes our understanding of power and character, which is why fantastical stories vary so wildly in different contexts. This doesn't even strike me as activism, unless you're uncomfortable with looking at a Dodo illustration in your D&D campaign. This is a book with extra monster ideas, some of which are inspired by animals you will never see. Even devoid of empathetic value towards those dead animals, you gotta admit it's pretty metal to fight an animal that doesn't exist... anymore.
  - hgsgm 4y ago
    Tolkien only denied interpretations he disagree with. He made no secret about the politics of the books.

adql 4y ago

I'm sure it makes authors feel really good about themselves, even tho it changes absolutely nothing.

smoldesu 4y ago

Honestly, I think this is great. The personal politicking of how D&D should/shouldn't be played is annoying, but this isn't really any of that. It's a deconstructive fantasy manual using the real world as inspiration for mildly thought-provoking world development. If using extinct animals as inspiration for monsters is a crime, then Gygax should be prosecuted first: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Saber-toothed_tiger https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Saber-toothed_tiger

yamtaddle 4y ago
> The personal politicking of how D&D should/shouldn't be played is annoying And deeply stupid. Don't like a change? Ignore it. Don't like something that's included in RAW or official sourcebooks? Ignore it. There are no Correctness Police at your table, you can do WTFever you (and your players) want. Want obsidian-black always-evil Drow? Go nuts, nobody cares. Think that's horribly racist? Make them purple and not alignment-locked. Hell, make them albino. No one will stop you. Most of the politics-related changes have been really, really easy to just house-rule out of existence, and most of the things that bothered people about older editions or settings are similarly easy to modify without having to extensively change other parts of the system. It's just a bunch of noise that barely matters at all. Don't like this extinct creatures manual? Just... don't buy it or use it as a source for your games then? It's so easy. And yeah, dinosaurs and mammoths and shit have been in D&D basically forever. Some of its major influences were "lost world" fiction and Conan-style prehistorical fantasy, so of course those are in it. D&D doesn't draw primarily from e.g. Tolkien-style high fantasy where dinosaurs and such might seem out-of-place. A source book for extinct animals for D&D falls solidly within the spectrum of "totally normal D&D stuff".
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Agreed. It's entirely caused by two parties fighting one another: - The authoritarian Wizards/Hasbro ownership that wants to commercialize and streamline the image of D&D and - The ass-wack community of people playing who have no intention of changing the way they play Neither of these parties are particularly wrong, but they'd be better off without each other. Hasbro should focus less on appeasing older wargamers and let their streamlined product serve as an introduction for younger players, and community shouldn't worship WotC for repeatedly failing them. At the end of the day, the best solution is like you say - dust off your favorite edition rulebook and write everything from there. It's all just fantasy, you can mix-and-match whatever you want. However, the best fantasy isn't passive or ambient writing. It's thought-provoking stuff that uses powerful analogies to tell a powerful story. Shying away from real-world inspiration or conflict is the equivalent to failing as a fantasy author (in my book).

nickthegreek 4y ago

This is a 3rd party product... exactly the kinda of place you would find a niche product that might appeal to "personal politics". You used to not be able to use the word D&D when promoting your 3rd party product, only the term 5E. I wonder if this has changed due to the recent SRD change. I thought I would like that, but this initially confused me as I thought this was an official D&D product.

eficek 4y ago

[flagged]

pipeline_peak 4y ago
[flagged]
gordian-mind 4y ago
What a horribly dehumanizing answer, shame on you.

crazydoggers 4y ago

There’s politics and opinions that we all can disagree on… and then there’s cold hard facts of reality. This is the latter. Currently the extinction rate is 100-1000 times higher than the normal background extinction level. [1] This is just drawing on reality for inspiration. Not some sort of political credo. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

bastawhiz 4y ago

What about this is political? The book is fact checked for accuracy. The animals listed as extinct are extinct. There's no commentary on the factors that led to the extinctions of these species (though they're not unknown). The only thing political about this is that some people would rather not think about the consequences of human actions. It's intensely political to say that we shouldn't care about or raise awareness of human-caused extinction.

bovermyer 4y ago

Politics is the affairs and events associated with governments. Too many people conflate "worldview" and "politics." By this comment, I assume you mean the authors are pushing a specifically political agenda, intended to change government or influence government policy. I'd love to hear you explain how that is the case.

LoganDark 4y ago
> intended to change government or influence government policy Such as protecting endangered species?
- bovermyer 4y ago
  This book is intended to educate people on anthropogenic extinction. Nowhere does it say it intends to influence government policy. The government is not the only way to protect endangered species.