3 ms·

> Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way I think it is only a few terminally online people that object

> Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way I think it is only a few terminally online people that object to this. In real life locals object to people coming in and buying second homes or renting out airbnbs, not new people moving into the area permanently.

actionfromafar 4y ago
I think the word Gentrification comes from real life.
RC_ITR 4y ago
> I think it is only a few terminally online people that object to this. The reality of the matter is that the insane population growth of the 20th Century led to some pretty haphazard development (e.g. CDMX’s never ending sprawl). This has made areas with livability amenities (e.g., walkable safe neighborhoods) relatively rare all things considered. For various reasons, certain areas with good amenities remained isolated from broader real estate markets (e.g., living in CDMX would seem laughable to an American in the 1980s based on crime statistics alone). Because of COVID, a lot of those areas are now a part of larger real estate markets. The people who live there now realize that they can’t afford the prices that the larger market brings, so acting in self interest, they try to remain isolated from the market. (In the vein if SF experiencing the worlds problems a decade before anywhere else) This is basically the story of SF’s Mission district over the past 20 years and why you’d see ridiculous things like people protesting new development because it had floor to ceiling windows. It’s a weird phenomenon, but one that most people on this forum can’t really relate to.
idiotsecant 4y ago
Trust me, there are plenty of places where people object to new people moving into the area permanently. If you haven't seen this you've never lived in Montana, Northern Idaho, etc. Xenophobia against out-of-staters is practically the regional religion. Which, to be honest, is not totally unjustified, these places are wonderful and people whose families have lived there for generations are finding themselves pushed out by the rising property values caused by the migration of people out of the rich cities and into their communities. It's unfortunately a feature of our system- if you don't have money you don't get to live in good places. People are just justifiably unhappy with that particular feature acting on them.
- danielrpa 4y ago
  Property values is just one part of the problem. A lot of the xenophobia is also due these migrants bringing their political opinions (and votes) with them.
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    I disagree, at least anecdotally. I spent most of my life in that region and after moving out of the area I can see it from both sides. The political thing is only marginally an issue. Yes, people in small (relative to the west coast) towns in Montana do think Californians are somewhat more left-leaning, but that's not ultimately an issue. This area of the country has a very 'rugged individualist' live-and-let-live attitude in that domain. It's much more an issue of rising property values literally destroying the communities that they once knew and turning them into mini-californias where they are no longer welcome. It's quite literally a case of not being able to afford to live where your family has lived for hundreds of years.
    - oceanplexian 4y ago
      Literally no one west of the Mississippi has had their family live anywhere for "hundreds of years". I can see the case being made in Europe, but ultimately this in the US it's just transplants upset at other transplants. aka "I got mine, and therefore I want to close the door behind me".
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    You don't even need to bring your political opinions to f things up. I know a guy who moves from CA to Idaho. He complains people don't maintain their houses nicely enough. He complains the dirt roads aren't graded well enough. He complains that the super market doesn't have what he wants. He complains that the way they do excavation is wrong (he's a septic guy by trade). At literally every turn he complains that the locals are doing it wrong. I've told him that the problem probably isn't the locals. (And I concur with what the other guy said about rising property values destroying communities.)
- 4y ago
karaterobot 4y ago
I think people will complain about newcomers of any type. That's just how it goes, all the way back the stone age. My opinion is that it does not matter. People will migrate, communities will change no matter who grumbles about it. It's a delusion — very likely a harmful one — to think they ever static in the first place, or should be prevented from changing.

actionfromafar 4y ago

I think the word Gentrification comes from real life.

RC_ITR 4y ago

> I think it is only a few terminally online people that object to this. The reality of the matter is that the insane population growth of the 20th Century led to some pretty haphazard development (e.g. CDMX’s never ending sprawl). This has made areas with livability amenities (e.g., walkable safe neighborhoods) relatively rare all things considered. For various reasons, certain areas with good amenities remained isolated from broader real estate markets (e.g., living in CDMX would seem laughable to an American in the 1980s based on crime statistics alone). Because of COVID, a lot of those areas are now a part of larger real estate markets. The people who live there now realize that they can’t afford the prices that the larger market brings, so acting in self interest, they try to remain isolated from the market. (In the vein if SF experiencing the worlds problems a decade before anywhere else) This is basically the story of SF’s Mission district over the past 20 years and why you’d see ridiculous things like people protesting new development because it had floor to ceiling windows. It’s a weird phenomenon, but one that most people on this forum can’t really relate to.

idiotsecant 4y ago

Trust me, there are plenty of places where people object to new people moving into the area permanently. If you haven't seen this you've never lived in Montana, Northern Idaho, etc. Xenophobia against out-of-staters is practically the regional religion. Which, to be honest, is not totally unjustified, these places are wonderful and people whose families have lived there for generations are finding themselves pushed out by the rising property values caused by the migration of people out of the rich cities and into their communities. It's unfortunately a feature of our system- if you don't have money you don't get to live in good places. People are just justifiably unhappy with that particular feature acting on them.

danielrpa 4y ago
Property values is just one part of the problem. A lot of the xenophobia is also due these migrants bringing their political opinions (and votes) with them.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  I disagree, at least anecdotally. I spent most of my life in that region and after moving out of the area I can see it from both sides. The political thing is only marginally an issue. Yes, people in small (relative to the west coast) towns in Montana do think Californians are somewhat more left-leaning, but that's not ultimately an issue. This area of the country has a very 'rugged individualist' live-and-let-live attitude in that domain. It's much more an issue of rising property values literally destroying the communities that they once knew and turning them into mini-californias where they are no longer welcome. It's quite literally a case of not being able to afford to live where your family has lived for hundreds of years.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    Literally no one west of the Mississippi has had their family live anywhere for "hundreds of years". I can see the case being made in Europe, but ultimately this in the US it's just transplants upset at other transplants. aka "I got mine, and therefore I want to close the door behind me".
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  You don't even need to bring your political opinions to f things up. I know a guy who moves from CA to Idaho. He complains people don't maintain their houses nicely enough. He complains the dirt roads aren't graded well enough. He complains that the super market doesn't have what he wants. He complains that the way they do excavation is wrong (he's a septic guy by trade). At literally every turn he complains that the locals are doing it wrong. I've told him that the problem probably isn't the locals. (And I concur with what the other guy said about rising property values destroying communities.)
4y ago

karaterobot 4y ago

I think people will complain about newcomers of any type. That's just how it goes, all the way back the stone age. My opinion is that it does not matter. People will migrate, communities will change no matter who grumbles about it. It's a delusion — very likely a harmful one — to think they ever static in the first place, or should be prevented from changing.