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It’s worth it even for hobby projects, imo. It reduces the time spent on mundane tasks and allows you to think at a higher level and just move faster. Maybe you

It’s worth it even for hobby projects, imo. It reduces the time spent on mundane tasks and allows you to think at a higher level and just move faster. Maybe you achieve a level of zen from implementing utility level code, similar to how some people might still write assembly code, but otherwise it’s a valuable tool/skill to learn. Tangentially, I think there’s some fear associated with adopting AI tools, perhaps because developers feel like their skill sets are being displaced. And they are but there’s headroom e.g. assembly programmers learned C. There seems to be some post-hoc rationalizations being put forth to avoid that fear, but my sense is that developers who don’t cultivate this new skill set will fall behind.

discreteevent 4y ago
> my sense is that developers who don’t cultivate this new skill set will fall behind That might be true but it's an easy skillset to pick up compared to programming. The bigger danger is that new developers will lean on AI so much that they do not pick up the fundamentals of programming in which case they will definitely be left behind.
- aliasxneo 4y ago
  Many, probably. However, the curious types will likely be further enhanced by AI. I've never been one to take code at face value, and I have been enjoying sessions with ChatGPT asking all sorts of questions about some of the stuff it produces. The answer is usually sufficient, and in cases where it's not, I've been given enough background context to know where to find the answer online or in books. Honestly, I've seen myself master many more additional things since I've started including it in my daily routine.
- blibble 4y ago
  the result of this will be similar to hiring infosys hundreds of thousands of lines of buggy incomprehensible boilerplate that doesn't work on anything but the easy cases then you have to rip the entire thing apart and start again with people that know what they're doing
unshavedyak 4y ago
Can you describe how you use it? I struggle to imagine how it would even be done. Ie do you write prompts? Just code as normal but frequently hit a "copilot" button? etc Though i do wonder if it'll improve my ability to read code. PRs are a pain because i find it easier to write than read. I'd pay for Copilot in a heartbeat if it was good at spotting PR errors/etc.
- nicky0 4y ago
  Just type your code in the editor. And it offers auto complete suggestions. Sometimes it will complete the entire function based on the function name or a comment. Sometimes it'll just guess the function you want to write, without you typing anything at all. (Turns out a lot of code is rather predictable). By experience though it’s best to go line by line rather than accepting whole function autcompletes. For me, I found incredibly useful for generating test cases. It will type out test functions for various conditions, stuff that is normal really tedious to code. Sometimes is eerie, how how well it knows exactly what next line should be. Countless times it filled in an important detail that I hadn’t thought of. It’s not perfect at all, sometimes it goes off on tangents or writes incorrect code. I don’t think you even have to pay for copilot. At least it’s free for me.
  - arlcode 4y ago
    They have a limited trial or company memberships afaik. It costs 10$/month 100$/year for individual users.
    - nicky0 4y ago
      ~~That's weird because I don't pay anything.~~ EDIT: GitHub Copilot is free to use for verified students, teachers, and maintainers of popular open source projects
      - toastal 4y ago
        The Adobe model of letting students and schools train on it and then demand employers buy the subscription when the graduate.
arlcode 4y ago
I'm being reminded of a close friend of mine who is a car mechanic. In recent years the fraction of BEV and PHEV among new cars has risen to ~20% which absolutely will influence his job and will require new skills of a different kind. Yet, despite the obvious evidence, he is unwillingly to even acknowledge the possibility that this is happening and refuses to research what it could mean to him (which may be very little). I never quite understood why. Certainly just keeping in touch with the world wouldn't hurt right? With the rise of AI, I think I get it. There's a part of me that is scared to shit about the prospect of being made redundant in the near future with all my acquired skill being worthless in this new world. The temptation to put my head into the sand and hope it "blows" over is strong. I've resigned myself to never become like my friend and consequently have recently shelled out for a year of Copilot. My thinking is that at worst it's 100€ wasted and at best I'm not blindsided by what is coming anyway. The reality will probably fall somewhere on a middle ground where there are still jobs to be found.

discreteevent 4y ago

> my sense is that developers who don’t cultivate this new skill set will fall behind That might be true but it's an easy skillset to pick up compared to programming. The bigger danger is that new developers will lean on AI so much that they do not pick up the fundamentals of programming in which case they will definitely be left behind.

aliasxneo 4y ago
Many, probably. However, the curious types will likely be further enhanced by AI. I've never been one to take code at face value, and I have been enjoying sessions with ChatGPT asking all sorts of questions about some of the stuff it produces. The answer is usually sufficient, and in cases where it's not, I've been given enough background context to know where to find the answer online or in books. Honestly, I've seen myself master many more additional things since I've started including it in my daily routine.
blibble 4y ago
the result of this will be similar to hiring infosys hundreds of thousands of lines of buggy incomprehensible boilerplate that doesn't work on anything but the easy cases then you have to rip the entire thing apart and start again with people that know what they're doing

unshavedyak 4y ago

Can you describe how you use it? I struggle to imagine how it would even be done. Ie do you write prompts? Just code as normal but frequently hit a "copilot" button? etc Though i do wonder if it'll improve my ability to read code. PRs are a pain because i find it easier to write than read. I'd pay for Copilot in a heartbeat if it was good at spotting PR errors/etc.

nicky0 4y ago
Just type your code in the editor. And it offers auto complete suggestions. Sometimes it will complete the entire function based on the function name or a comment. Sometimes it'll just guess the function you want to write, without you typing anything at all. (Turns out a lot of code is rather predictable). By experience though it’s best to go line by line rather than accepting whole function autcompletes. For me, I found incredibly useful for generating test cases. It will type out test functions for various conditions, stuff that is normal really tedious to code. Sometimes is eerie, how how well it knows exactly what next line should be. Countless times it filled in an important detail that I hadn’t thought of. It’s not perfect at all, sometimes it goes off on tangents or writes incorrect code. I don’t think you even have to pay for copilot. At least it’s free for me.
- arlcode 4y ago
  They have a limited trial or company memberships afaik. It costs 10$/month 100$/year for individual users.
  - nicky0 4y ago
    ~~That's weird because I don't pay anything.~~ EDIT: GitHub Copilot is free to use for verified students, teachers, and maintainers of popular open source projects
    - toastal 4y ago
      The Adobe model of letting students and schools train on it and then demand employers buy the subscription when the graduate.

arlcode 4y ago

I'm being reminded of a close friend of mine who is a car mechanic. In recent years the fraction of BEV and PHEV among new cars has risen to ~20% which absolutely will influence his job and will require new skills of a different kind. Yet, despite the obvious evidence, he is unwillingly to even acknowledge the possibility that this is happening and refuses to research what it could mean to him (which may be very little). I never quite understood why. Certainly just keeping in touch with the world wouldn't hurt right? With the rise of AI, I think I get it. There's a part of me that is scared to shit about the prospect of being made redundant in the near future with all my acquired skill being worthless in this new world. The temptation to put my head into the sand and hope it "blows" over is strong. I've resigned myself to never become like my friend and consequently have recently shelled out for a year of Copilot. My thinking is that at worst it's 100€ wasted and at best I'm not blindsided by what is coming anyway. The reality will probably fall somewhere on a middle ground where there are still jobs to be found.