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This is a pretty sad article. Here they talk about the location of charging stations, noting that they are in out of the way places: Early charging stations in

This is a pretty sad article. Here they talk about the location of charging stations, noting that they are in out of the way places: Early charging stations in the United States have been placed in inconvenient places, too. Andrea Colomina, the sustainable communities program director at Green Latinos, said one of the first locations to get a charger in New York City was the parking lot of a zoo. “The first generation [of charging stations] was really not holistically thought out. As usual, because men were making most of the decisions, they were not walking through the scenarios,” she said. “You have to think through what is the experience of every potential user.” What is obviously missing from this discussion, is that economic factors and available space drive decisions like this. It's not simply that men are not thinking about women. Colomina is quoted as some kind of expert, but she is just offering bromides and commonplaces, nothing specifically related to factors that drove the early placement of charging stations.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
> economic factors and available space drive decisions like this And that's the problem! You can't just focus on economics and space, you also need to consider the users. Placing the stations in "inconvenient places" will definitely hamper use. People, especially women, don't like going into potentially unsafe locations either. I have known people who avoid certain gas stations at night because they're dark and look dangerous.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  Economics is a constraint. No amount of wishful thinking makes it go away. Destination charging has been part of the EV vision since forever. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who values safety or convenience to hold off until the infrastructure is mature enough to suit their needs. It's a bit silly to blame men for not building everything yesterday, though. It's doubly silly to frame this as a failure of imagination. Contractors and landlords don't take payment in imagination. Likewise, lower price brackets have been the goal of the EV vision since forever (Tesla Master Plan, 2006). However, as with any technology, the users who are willing to tolerate more bugs and higher prices have to come first before the money/experience gleaned from them can be used to address the broader market. It's perfectly reasonable to hold off an EV purchase until EV manufacturers put out a competitive offering in your price bracket, but again, it's a bit silly to blame men for not building everything yesterday. These things take time.
loeg 4y ago
> Here they talk about the location of charging stations, noting that they are in out of the way places... > What is obviously missing from this discussion, is that economic factors and available space drive decisions like this. Of course gas stations were placed with similar concerns and are sometimes similarly out of the way or in depressed areas, but there are a lot more of them and some better-located ones exist, due to history / path-dependency.
scohesc 4y ago
It's disgusting to see people blame entire segments of the population when it's really just "someone didn't think of these things" or "it's not feasible right now" - whether it's economic, planning, management, etc. etc. It's not "men" - as much as it's not "women" that mess things up or do things wrong. It's such a cheap cop-out. Maybe people should be more informed about what an electric car entails before buying one, realizing it's a pain to charge it, then blame an entire population segment instead of blaming themselves and their lack of research.
Spivak 4y ago
> It's not simply that men are not thinking about women You're thinking about it wrong, like it's some kind of blame. It's "if the primary decision makers were women this would have been a showstopping problem" with something completely different needing to take its place. You're one decision too far in the logic, "given everything about the existing design of charging stations where should we place them" when it would have been, "good lord we're designing these things to be unattended and put in garages and parking lots. Yikes. A woman visibly broadcasting that she's immobile in an isolated location for 30 minutes at night -- good plan, I see no problems with this."
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  You're thinking about it all wrong, like it's some kind of blame. Seeing a problem and fixing a problem are two completely different things. Seeing a problem is a mental exercise, fixing a problem is an economic exercise. In this case, fixing the problem involves "just" buying, leasing, or otherwise occupying the most expensive premium public real estate. There's nothing "just" about this idea. It's expensive AF, and the person who wants more safety than current infrastructure can offer also wants lower prices than infrastructure can offer. How do you propose to square this circle? Where does the money come from? Shouting "showstopper!" is not an answer, but fortunately the EV movement has a plan, one that will actually work. They plan to first address the needs of enthusiasts who are willing to put up with high prices and patchy infrastructure, and then use that money & mindshare to fill in the infrastructure to serve everyone else, both through destination charging (so you don't have to sit with the car) and through gargantuan factories that can drive the economics of scale to compete on lower price brackets. Blaming men for not building this all yesterday is a bit silly. It'll happen. It's been the goal since 2006. There was no way to make it happen yesterday, but it will happen tomorrow. Patience.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Clearly we're talking past one another. There's no blame. The fact that women would have designed this system significantly differently to account for our specific needs is not blaming men for not doing that. But then you have to be willing to say, "yeah, the product as it currently exists is expected to be unpopular with women and we're fine with that right now." Like it's not hard too imagine a world where the rollout was to partner with gas stations and 24 hour convenience stores/restaurants where there are lights, people, and cameras.
Avshalom 4y ago
That's nonsense though. Yes cost/space was a factor but it's not like they built the first one in the absolute cheapest acre they good find, then put the second one in the second cheapest... Proximity to amenities, to neighborhoods with high ev ownership, distance to the nearest charging station, traffic etc... Dozens of factors. Meanwhile of course: will women (~50% of the population) be willing to use this is itself an economic consideration.
- solidsnack9000 4y ago
  What is nonsense is the supposed expert's failure to discuss "Proximity to amenities, to neighborhoods with high ev ownership, distance to the nearest charging station, traffic etc... Dozens of factors.", as you mention. These are all factors that can be readily encompassed under the heading of economics and available space. The best situated, safest, cheapest and most desirable locations for fueling vehicles are already occupied by gas stations. There is nothing that women can do about that, just by looking at the situation differently -- that's the nonsense underlying the expert's commentary.
lamontcg 4y ago
> This is a pretty sad article. 1. clickbait title that ends in "here's why" cliffhanger. 2. top comment leads with "pretty sad article". I guess I can skip it and go on with my day...
7e 4y ago
How do women get away with these ugly sexist takes?

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago

> economic factors and available space drive decisions like this And that's the problem! You can't just focus on economics and space, you also need to consider the users. Placing the stations in "inconvenient places" will definitely hamper use. People, especially women, don't like going into potentially unsafe locations either. I have known people who avoid certain gas stations at night because they're dark and look dangerous.

jjoonathan 4y ago
Economics is a constraint. No amount of wishful thinking makes it go away. Destination charging has been part of the EV vision since forever. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who values safety or convenience to hold off until the infrastructure is mature enough to suit their needs. It's a bit silly to blame men for not building everything yesterday, though. It's doubly silly to frame this as a failure of imagination. Contractors and landlords don't take payment in imagination. Likewise, lower price brackets have been the goal of the EV vision since forever (Tesla Master Plan, 2006). However, as with any technology, the users who are willing to tolerate more bugs and higher prices have to come first before the money/experience gleaned from them can be used to address the broader market. It's perfectly reasonable to hold off an EV purchase until EV manufacturers put out a competitive offering in your price bracket, but again, it's a bit silly to blame men for not building everything yesterday. These things take time.

loeg 4y ago

> Here they talk about the location of charging stations, noting that they are in out of the way places... > What is obviously missing from this discussion, is that economic factors and available space drive decisions like this. Of course gas stations were placed with similar concerns and are sometimes similarly out of the way or in depressed areas, but there are a lot more of them and some better-located ones exist, due to history / path-dependency.

scohesc 4y ago

It's disgusting to see people blame entire segments of the population when it's really just "someone didn't think of these things" or "it's not feasible right now" - whether it's economic, planning, management, etc. etc. It's not "men" - as much as it's not "women" that mess things up or do things wrong. It's such a cheap cop-out. Maybe people should be more informed about what an electric car entails before buying one, realizing it's a pain to charge it, then blame an entire population segment instead of blaming themselves and their lack of research.

Spivak 4y ago

> It's not simply that men are not thinking about women You're thinking about it wrong, like it's some kind of blame. It's "if the primary decision makers were women this would have been a showstopping problem" with something completely different needing to take its place. You're one decision too far in the logic, "given everything about the existing design of charging stations where should we place them" when it would have been, "good lord we're designing these things to be unattended and put in garages and parking lots. Yikes. A woman visibly broadcasting that she's immobile in an isolated location for 30 minutes at night -- good plan, I see no problems with this."

jjoonathan 4y ago
You're thinking about it all wrong, like it's some kind of blame. Seeing a problem and fixing a problem are two completely different things. Seeing a problem is a mental exercise, fixing a problem is an economic exercise. In this case, fixing the problem involves "just" buying, leasing, or otherwise occupying the most expensive premium public real estate. There's nothing "just" about this idea. It's expensive AF, and the person who wants more safety than current infrastructure can offer also wants lower prices than infrastructure can offer. How do you propose to square this circle? Where does the money come from? Shouting "showstopper!" is not an answer, but fortunately the EV movement has a plan, one that will actually work. They plan to first address the needs of enthusiasts who are willing to put up with high prices and patchy infrastructure, and then use that money & mindshare to fill in the infrastructure to serve everyone else, both through destination charging (so you don't have to sit with the car) and through gargantuan factories that can drive the economics of scale to compete on lower price brackets. Blaming men for not building this all yesterday is a bit silly. It'll happen. It's been the goal since 2006. There was no way to make it happen yesterday, but it will happen tomorrow. Patience.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Clearly we're talking past one another. There's no blame. The fact that women would have designed this system significantly differently to account for our specific needs is not blaming men for not doing that. But then you have to be willing to say, "yeah, the product as it currently exists is expected to be unpopular with women and we're fine with that right now." Like it's not hard too imagine a world where the rollout was to partner with gas stations and 24 hour convenience stores/restaurants where there are lights, people, and cameras.

Avshalom 4y ago

That's nonsense though. Yes cost/space was a factor but it's not like they built the first one in the absolute cheapest acre they good find, then put the second one in the second cheapest... Proximity to amenities, to neighborhoods with high ev ownership, distance to the nearest charging station, traffic etc... Dozens of factors. Meanwhile of course: will women (~50% of the population) be willing to use this is itself an economic consideration.

solidsnack9000 4y ago
What is nonsense is the supposed expert's failure to discuss "Proximity to amenities, to neighborhoods with high ev ownership, distance to the nearest charging station, traffic etc... Dozens of factors.", as you mention. These are all factors that can be readily encompassed under the heading of economics and available space. The best situated, safest, cheapest and most desirable locations for fueling vehicles are already occupied by gas stations. There is nothing that women can do about that, just by looking at the situation differently -- that's the nonsense underlying the expert's commentary.

lamontcg 4y ago

> This is a pretty sad article. 1. clickbait title that ends in "here's why" cliffhanger. 2. top comment leads with "pretty sad article". I guess I can skip it and go on with my day...

7e 4y ago

How do women get away with these ugly sexist takes?