4 ms·

> Frankly Mozilla already lost that and people demanding Mozilla stay firefox focused are telling the company to death spiral. Firefox has no path, literally no

> Frankly Mozilla already lost that and people demanding Mozilla stay firefox focused are telling the company to death spiral. Firefox has no path, literally none, in getting a significant marketing share. The company is in a death spiral regardless of what 20-50 HN commenters tell Mozilla to do. Please don't have any illusions in that regard. We can still debate as to why they have been in a death spiral for the last 10 years, and part of it was that they did pretty much everything to avoid making a better browser that could have actually been a competitor to Chrome. On top of showing a giant middle finger to all the power users who developed add-ons. > I would rather Mozilla keep trying things that keeps it afloat. Isn't the only thing keeping them afloat concessions from Google in some sums of money? In that sense they could be doing anything and it wouldn't make any difference. It's extremely clear that their leadership is Google-captive and will never be allowed to make anything that directly competes with the tech giants.

bacchusracine 4y ago
[flagged]
- nativeit 4y ago
  Snarky rhyming schemes aren’t much of a political philosophy.
  - bacchusracine 4y ago
    > Snarky rhyming schemes aren’t much of a political philosophy. Slogans have always existed. Poking at them and calling them snarky doesn't stop them from being condensed talking points. Or from being an observable reality. A little over ten years ago Firefox was doing well. In the time since then it has not fared well at all. Looking at what has changed since then is a very valid thing to do.
- return_to_monke 4y ago
  a) you shouldn't be demoted because of your political donations, as long as you're not donating to do harm - whether Eich was donating to a harmful organization is debatable b) This has nothing to do with "wholeness" and everything to do with Google pushing chrome as hard as they can. - There is android phones, and I am pretty sure some Google services would advertise it to you - Chromebooks are used in most public schools across America c) Eich later went on to found Brave. Have you ever seen anyone in the real world use Brave? They passed 50M users one year ago: https://brave.com/2021-recap/ https://brave.com/2021-recap/ Wikipedia states 63% of people used the internet worldwide in 2021: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_... that is 4.9 billion people. So, brave has a market share of, drum roll, 1%. In conclusion, the argument that Eich would have led them to success is not a good one, in my opinion.
  - BrendanEich 4y ago
    Firefox share loss since I left. Yes, it was losing share before I left too. Counterfactuals aside, growing Brave to 57M MAU from 0 wasn't a minor thing, and we are still growing in spite of Chrome's market power. Firefox (click on legend items for other browsers) is still losing share. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-201404-202303 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2014...
- antisthenes 4y ago
  I don't think "wokeness" had anything to do with it. Their leadership simply became captive to Google's money and began slowly sinking the ship while making it look like the orchestra is still playing.
dblohm7 4y ago
> We can still debate as to why they have been in a death spiral for the last 10 years, and part of it was that they did pretty much everything to avoid making a better browser that could have actually been a competitor to Chrome. You clearly haven't been paying attention at all. Quantum 57 shipped in 2017 and was a huge investment.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  I clearly have. Quantum was the giant middle finger I described in my post.
  - dblohm7 4y ago
    You're fixating on very necessary changes to the addon ecosystem and selectively ignoring the huge underlying changes to Gecko that were made possible by doing so.

bacchusracine 4y ago

[flagged]

nativeit 4y ago
Snarky rhyming schemes aren’t much of a political philosophy.
- bacchusracine 4y ago
  > Snarky rhyming schemes aren’t much of a political philosophy. Slogans have always existed. Poking at them and calling them snarky doesn't stop them from being condensed talking points. Or from being an observable reality. A little over ten years ago Firefox was doing well. In the time since then it has not fared well at all. Looking at what has changed since then is a very valid thing to do.
return_to_monke 4y ago
a) you shouldn't be demoted because of your political donations, as long as you're not donating to do harm - whether Eich was donating to a harmful organization is debatable b) This has nothing to do with "wholeness" and everything to do with Google pushing chrome as hard as they can. - There is android phones, and I am pretty sure some Google services would advertise it to you - Chromebooks are used in most public schools across America c) Eich later went on to found Brave. Have you ever seen anyone in the real world use Brave? They passed 50M users one year ago: https://brave.com/2021-recap/ https://brave.com/2021-recap/ Wikipedia states 63% of people used the internet worldwide in 2021: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_... that is 4.9 billion people. So, brave has a market share of, drum roll, 1%. In conclusion, the argument that Eich would have led them to success is not a good one, in my opinion.
- BrendanEich 4y ago
  Firefox share loss since I left. Yes, it was losing share before I left too. Counterfactuals aside, growing Brave to 57M MAU from 0 wasn't a minor thing, and we are still growing in spite of Chrome's market power. Firefox (click on legend items for other browsers) is still losing share. https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-201404-202303 https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share#monthly-2014...
antisthenes 4y ago
I don't think "wokeness" had anything to do with it. Their leadership simply became captive to Google's money and began slowly sinking the ship while making it look like the orchestra is still playing.

dblohm7 4y ago

> We can still debate as to why they have been in a death spiral for the last 10 years, and part of it was that they did pretty much everything to avoid making a better browser that could have actually been a competitor to Chrome. You clearly haven't been paying attention at all. Quantum 57 shipped in 2017 and was a huge investment.

antisthenes 4y ago
I clearly have. Quantum was the giant middle finger I described in my post.
- dblohm7 4y ago
  You're fixating on very necessary changes to the addon ecosystem and selectively ignoring the huge underlying changes to Gecko that were made possible by doing so.