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They clearly miscalculated since they thought Ukraine would surrender in days, and offered Zelensky a plane to fly out of there. They had expected to sacrifice

by EGreg 4y ago

They clearly miscalculated since they thought Ukraine would surrender in days, and offered Zelensky a plane to fly out of there. They had expected to sacrifice the Ukrainian people by waging a years-long guerilla war arming neo-nazi groups with stingers and so on, just as they did the Mujahideen in Afghanistan. Just for reference 2 million civilians died in the Afghan war we perpetuated just to stick it to the Soviets and “make them bleed for as long and as hard as possible”. Our media even ran stories about this BEFORE the invasion: https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/cia-trained-ukrainian-paramilitaries-may-take-central-role-if-russia-invades-185258008.html https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/cia-trained-ukrainian-paramil... Whenever governments try to force others, it backfires: 1) Ukraine tried to force Donetsk and Luhansk to submit, bombed them and didn’t want to give them autonomy. Russia got involved and now Ukraine is in much worse shape. 2) Russia tried to force Ukraine to submit, stop bombing Donetsk and not join NATO. They rolled in with tanks, but USA and NATO got involved, and now Russia is stuck in a quagmire and is economically isolated from the West. Putin got the very NATO unity and expansion he feared. 3) The USA tried to force Europe and the rest of the world to sanction Russia “or else” economically, even (likely) blew up the gas pipelines so there would be no temptation to renew relations with Russia. Now US dollar hegemony is increasingly under threat, and going down from its peak. USA gets the very exodus from the dollar that it feared. BRICS is an expanding economic alliance against USA just like NATO is a military alliance against Russia (and soon, QUAD will be a military alliance against China). China is taking a leadership position in the world, it will likele reconcile Saudi Arabia and Iran (sunnis and shiites), end the war in Yemen, and take them both into BRICS. It will own the Middle East. BRICS already rivals G7 in economic size and far exceeds it in population but they are now working on bilateral trade and a basket of currencies to exit US dollar. That means all that free stuff from abroad will be coming to an end and the dollar’s purchssing power will be lower, and less H1B visa scientists coming to boost our ranks. It always backfires when you try to push people around. Better to simply listen to them and care about their issues.

JohnBooty 4y ago
They clearly miscalculated since they thought Ukraine would surrender in days, and offered Zelensky a plane to fly out of there That's a contingency plan, not a miscalculation. Of course it makes sense to be prepared for as many possible outcomes as possible. If Zelensky was willing to fight, we were ready to arm him. If Zelensky was not willing to fight, we were willing to offer him safety because he would be much more useful in American hands than Russian ones, and we would have armed insurgents. To call this a "miscalculation" makes about as much sense as calling it a "miscalculation" to have fire extinguishers in your house if a fire never actually occurs. They had expected to sacrifice the Ukrainian people "Sacrificing" implies we're merely using them. This is a mutual arrangement. Nobody is forcing Ukraine to fight. They are willing, and we are arming and assisting them. No, it's not idealistic altruism but we share common goals. It always backfires when you try to push people around. Better to simply listen to them and care about their issues. I don't disagree with the second half of your post, but it's a massive non-sequitur. Nobody is pushing Ukraine into fighting.
oneshtein 4y ago
You logic is hard to follow. Can you explain why Ukraine suddenly invaded Ukraine, annexed Crimea, started to bomb Ukrainian cities and how Russia was involved into all that?

by EGreg 4y ago

JohnBooty 4y ago

They clearly miscalculated since they thought Ukraine would surrender in days, and offered Zelensky a plane to fly out of there That's a contingency plan, not a miscalculation. Of course it makes sense to be prepared for as many possible outcomes as possible. If Zelensky was willing to fight, we were ready to arm him. If Zelensky was not willing to fight, we were willing to offer him safety because he would be much more useful in American hands than Russian ones, and we would have armed insurgents. To call this a "miscalculation" makes about as much sense as calling it a "miscalculation" to have fire extinguishers in your house if a fire never actually occurs. They had expected to sacrifice the Ukrainian people "Sacrificing" implies we're merely using them. This is a mutual arrangement. Nobody is forcing Ukraine to fight. They are willing, and we are arming and assisting them. No, it's not idealistic altruism but we share common goals. It always backfires when you try to push people around. Better to simply listen to them and care about their issues. I don't disagree with the second half of your post, but it's a massive non-sequitur. Nobody is pushing Ukraine into fighting.

oneshtein 4y ago

You logic is hard to follow. Can you explain why Ukraine suddenly invaded Ukraine, annexed Crimea, started to bomb Ukrainian cities and how Russia was involved into all that?