3 ms·

There were a few articles about people getting multiple remote jobs, doing the bare minimum to avoid getting fired for a while, eventually getting fired, and ac

There were a few articles about people getting multiple remote jobs, doing the bare minimum to avoid getting fired for a while, eventually getting fired, and accruing large sums of money by doing that for years while presumably also holding a normal job in secret.

whateveracct 4y ago
Is that fraud though?
- andsoitis 4y ago
  I would say so. Fraud is when you intentionally deceive someone for gain. Whether the particular fraud is criminal or not is a separate matter.
  - whateveracct 4y ago
    I think it's potentially more complicated than that. If an employer asks you if you have another job and you are working a second one, it is lying for you to say that you don't. But what exclusive right does your employer have to your labor? That depends on your contract of course. So if you signed away exclusive access to your labor, it's fraud. And that's not uncommon - there's often at least a "you will disclose other employment" clause in developer at-will contracts. That said, I think the only consequence of not disclosing is potentially getting fired with cause if you get found out. IANAL but I don't know of precedent for clawing back pay (which would be fitting for actual fraud). If you didn't, then it's your employer trying to get more than they signed. And in that case, the lie is a necessary evil.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      You know, when a working class dude busts his ass taking two, or even three jobs to improve his family's living standard, he's admired and they call him hard working. But when an office worker manages to slice up his day such that he can take two jobs (and do them up to performance expectations) they call it fraud. Not sure I understand this double standard. People get so hung up on this idea that full time should imply exclusive.
      - whateveracct 4y ago
        I think it's employers playing the game and optimizing. Full-time employees are salaried. They cost the same no matter how much work they do. So full-time employers want them to do as much work as possible. They view time as zero-sum, so any hours you spend on another job are hours you could have spent on them. Even if - as we all know - there are diminishing returns on hours and those hours at job 2 would not produce the same output if pumped into job 1. So, as always, full-time employers resort to soft power and psychological tricks to exert control over salaried employees. And I'd say it's increasing lately because remote work as shifted the power imbalance and employers are realizing the other side of at-will, salaried employment is that employees can work as little for them as they can get away with so long as they are good enough to remain willfully employed.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  My employment agreement states that I agree to only hold one full-time job and that I agree to inform my employer if I decide to work another concurrently. This seems like pretty standard practice.
  - whateveracct 4y ago
    I checked a few of mine and none of them quite do that. They're all very similar, American salaried at-will agreements. They say that 1. I must disclose any prior agreement that may affect my eligibility to be employed by Employer. 2. I must disclose any outside activities. 3. I am employed at-will. (2) doesn't mean I can't have another job, but combined with (3) it does in practice.
danjac 4y ago
If someone is that dedicated I don't think a rigorous hiring process is going to stop them. Perhaps just ask for a couple references?

whateveracct 4y ago

Is that fraud though?

andsoitis 4y ago
I would say so. Fraud is when you intentionally deceive someone for gain. Whether the particular fraud is criminal or not is a separate matter.
- whateveracct 4y ago
  I think it's potentially more complicated than that. If an employer asks you if you have another job and you are working a second one, it is lying for you to say that you don't. But what exclusive right does your employer have to your labor? That depends on your contract of course. So if you signed away exclusive access to your labor, it's fraud. And that's not uncommon - there's often at least a "you will disclose other employment" clause in developer at-will contracts. That said, I think the only consequence of not disclosing is potentially getting fired with cause if you get found out. IANAL but I don't know of precedent for clawing back pay (which would be fitting for actual fraud). If you didn't, then it's your employer trying to get more than they signed. And in that case, the lie is a necessary evil.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    You know, when a working class dude busts his ass taking two, or even three jobs to improve his family's living standard, he's admired and they call him hard working. But when an office worker manages to slice up his day such that he can take two jobs (and do them up to performance expectations) they call it fraud. Not sure I understand this double standard. People get so hung up on this idea that full time should imply exclusive.
    - whateveracct 4y ago
      I think it's employers playing the game and optimizing. Full-time employees are salaried. They cost the same no matter how much work they do. So full-time employers want them to do as much work as possible. They view time as zero-sum, so any hours you spend on another job are hours you could have spent on them. Even if - as we all know - there are diminishing returns on hours and those hours at job 2 would not produce the same output if pumped into job 1. So, as always, full-time employers resort to soft power and psychological tricks to exert control over salaried employees. And I'd say it's increasing lately because remote work as shifted the power imbalance and employers are realizing the other side of at-will, salaried employment is that employees can work as little for them as they can get away with so long as they are good enough to remain willfully employed.
mywittyname 4y ago
My employment agreement states that I agree to only hold one full-time job and that I agree to inform my employer if I decide to work another concurrently. This seems like pretty standard practice.
- whateveracct 4y ago
  I checked a few of mine and none of them quite do that. They're all very similar, American salaried at-will agreements. They say that 1. I must disclose any prior agreement that may affect my eligibility to be employed by Employer. 2. I must disclose any outside activities. 3. I am employed at-will. (2) doesn't mean I can't have another job, but combined with (3) it does in practice.

danjac 4y ago

If someone is that dedicated I don't think a rigorous hiring process is going to stop them. Perhaps just ask for a couple references?