4 ms·

What kind of fraud in remote work?

by grugagag 4y ago

IceyEC 4y ago
I interview and then you show up to do the job, possibly
- coredog64 4y ago
  I saw a lot of that while doing phone screens: People who were getting coached via earbuds, people who were frantically searching Google for answers, etc. The 100% virtual hiring process means that it is much easier to sub out your interview as there’s no point in the process where you show up for an on-site, present your government issued ID, and then interview.
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    I don’t remember ever showing my id in onsites. In some of those big places one could def skate by having someone else interview and then show up on first day and nobody would notice. Ime id doesn’t come up until hr wants work authorization on your first day
    - pnutjam 4y ago
      Yeah, I worked for a large employer who complained about this happening when people were onsite all day. Different people interviewed and showed up for work. This is nothing new, it's just a media blitz by status quo lovers.
Arch-TK 4y ago
There were a few articles about people getting multiple remote jobs, doing the bare minimum to avoid getting fired for a while, eventually getting fired, and accruing large sums of money by doing that for years while presumably also holding a normal job in secret.
- whateveracct 4y ago
  Is that fraud though?
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    I would say so. Fraud is when you intentionally deceive someone for gain. Whether the particular fraud is criminal or not is a separate matter.
    - whateveracct 4y ago
      I think it's potentially more complicated than that. If an employer asks you if you have another job and you are working a second one, it is lying for you to say that you don't. But what exclusive right does your employer have to your labor? That depends on your contract of course. So if you signed away exclusive access to your labor, it's fraud. And that's not uncommon - there's often at least a "you will disclose other employment" clause in developer at-will contracts. That said, I think the only consequence of not disclosing is potentially getting fired with cause if you get found out. IANAL but I don't know of precedent for clawing back pay (which would be fitting for actual fraud). If you didn't, then it's your employer trying to get more than they signed. And in that case, the lie is a necessary evil.
      - ryandrake 4y ago
        You know, when a working class dude busts his ass taking two, or even three jobs to improve his family's living standard, he's admired and they call him hard working. But when an office worker manages to slice up his day such that he can take two jobs (and do them up to performance expectations) they call it fraud. Not sure I understand this double standard. People get so hung up on this idea that full time should imply exclusive.
        whateveracct 4y ago
        I think it's employers playing the game and optimizing. Full-time employees are salaried. They cost the same no matter how much work they do. So full-time employers want them to do as much work as possible. They view time as zero-sum, so any hours you spend on another job are hours you could have spent on them. Even if - as we all know - there are diminishing returns on hours and those hours at job 2 would not produce the same output if pumped into job 1. So, as always, full-time employers resort to soft power and psychological tricks to exert control over salaried employees. And I'd say it's increasing lately because remote work as shifted the power imbalance and employers are realizing the other side of at-will, salaried employment is that employees can work as little for them as they can get away with so long as they are good enough to remain willfully employed.
brightball 4y ago
Personal favorite was refusal to turn on cameras while a different voice participated in each conversation, if at all. There was always a different reason why the camera couldn't be turned on too, while it clearly wasn't a problem during the interview. Tracked IP address access and it was hopping all over the world on a day to day basis. Constantly acting confused after acing the interview. Never getting anything done and insisting on pairing with somebody else who just did the work for them. Essentially the goal seemed to be to collect a paycheck for as long as possible until somebody noticed and you ended up fired. I heard variations of this from a few people and saw one first hand.

What kind of fraud in remote work?

IceyEC 4y ago

I interview and then you show up to do the job, possibly

coredog64 4y ago
I saw a lot of that while doing phone screens: People who were getting coached via earbuds, people who were frantically searching Google for answers, etc. The 100% virtual hiring process means that it is much easier to sub out your interview as there’s no point in the process where you show up for an on-site, present your government issued ID, and then interview.
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  I don’t remember ever showing my id in onsites. In some of those big places one could def skate by having someone else interview and then show up on first day and nobody would notice. Ime id doesn’t come up until hr wants work authorization on your first day
  - pnutjam 4y ago
    Yeah, I worked for a large employer who complained about this happening when people were onsite all day. Different people interviewed and showed up for work. This is nothing new, it's just a media blitz by status quo lovers.

Arch-TK 4y ago

There were a few articles about people getting multiple remote jobs, doing the bare minimum to avoid getting fired for a while, eventually getting fired, and accruing large sums of money by doing that for years while presumably also holding a normal job in secret.

whateveracct 4y ago
Is that fraud though?
- andsoitis 4y ago
  I would say so. Fraud is when you intentionally deceive someone for gain. Whether the particular fraud is criminal or not is a separate matter.
  - whateveracct 4y ago
    I think it's potentially more complicated than that. If an employer asks you if you have another job and you are working a second one, it is lying for you to say that you don't. But what exclusive right does your employer have to your labor? That depends on your contract of course. So if you signed away exclusive access to your labor, it's fraud. And that's not uncommon - there's often at least a "you will disclose other employment" clause in developer at-will contracts. That said, I think the only consequence of not disclosing is potentially getting fired with cause if you get found out. IANAL but I don't know of precedent for clawing back pay (which would be fitting for actual fraud). If you didn't, then it's your employer trying to get more than they signed. And in that case, the lie is a necessary evil.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      You know, when a working class dude busts his ass taking two, or even three jobs to improve his family's living standard, he's admired and they call him hard working. But when an office worker manages to slice up his day such that he can take two jobs (and do them up to performance expectations) they call it fraud. Not sure I understand this double standard. People get so hung up on this idea that full time should imply exclusive.
      - whateveracct 4y ago
        I think it's employers playing the game and optimizing. Full-time employees are salaried. They cost the same no matter how much work they do. So full-time employers want them to do as much work as possible. They view time as zero-sum, so any hours you spend on another job are hours you could have spent on them. Even if - as we all know - there are diminishing returns on hours and those hours at job 2 would not produce the same output if pumped into job 1. So, as always, full-time employers resort to soft power and psychological tricks to exert control over salaried employees. And I'd say it's increasing lately because remote work as shifted the power imbalance and employers are realizing the other side of at-will, salaried employment is that employees can work as little for them as they can get away with so long as they are good enough to remain willfully employed.

brightball 4y ago

Personal favorite was refusal to turn on cameras while a different voice participated in each conversation, if at all. There was always a different reason why the camera couldn't be turned on too, while it clearly wasn't a problem during the interview. Tracked IP address access and it was hopping all over the world on a day to day basis. Constantly acting confused after acing the interview. Never getting anything done and insisting on pairing with somebody else who just did the work for them. Essentially the goal seemed to be to collect a paycheck for as long as possible until somebody noticed and you ended up fired. I heard variations of this from a few people and saw one first hand.