6 ms·

Part of OPs problem may be that it's hard to differentiate yourself in that kind of position. Full stack web development is not easy to get right, but the compe

Part of OPs problem may be that it's hard to differentiate yourself in that kind of position. Full stack web development is not easy to get right, but the competition pool is huge. It helps to find even the smallest little angle to differentiate yourself. The personality tests can fuck right off, though. Agree with that.

0xy 4y ago
Personality tests are IQ tests that don't want to admit to being IQ tests, at least the ones I've taken.
- bluedino 4y ago
  What about the ones with questions like: When I see an error, it bothers me. Mostly agree Somewhat agree Neither agree or disagree Somewhat disagree Mostly disagree
  - WJW 4y ago
    That's just an emotional IQ ("EQ") test for figuring if you can detect what they want to hear.
    - drewcoo 4y ago
      Exactly. A neurodivergence filter. Because it's illegal to discriminate against that protected class directly.
  - varispeed 4y ago
    For me this is not answerable question because it is lacking context. If it was not possible to go to the next question, it would be where I would end the interview.
    - ubercore 4y ago
      Context is everything, and why these fail. When I did one, the process included the narrative version of the results. I had a question that was something like "It's important to support your organization", which I agree with. In the narrative form of the results, it concluded that I "may not tell the truth to superiors if something is wrong" from that. Of course I support the organization, and I think being honest with superiors is the best way to do that. In the end, these things are so imprecise that you have to get to know somebody to know which parts are accurate (some were) and which aren't. By †he time you know how accurate it was, you know the person well enough to not need the test.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Only if the person taking the test is willing to lie. I imagine most people understand that you are supposed to lie on these tests, but I could imagine some extremely honest people failing them even if they were smart enough to figure out what the employer wants to hear.
imglorp 4y ago
I once aced an interview before and been told they'd make an offer after this one little Big Five personality test, I think it was called. Fail with no feedback. That's not constructive or actionable. Is that test any better than phrenology or palmistry in practice?
- varispeed 4y ago
  I wonder why personality tests are not illegal? This is essentially screening for neurodivergent people and facilitation of discrimination based on disabilities.
  - jtwaleson 4y ago
    Complicated issue, you also want a diverse, balanced team with different personalities.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    My guess would be not enough lawsuits yet. Until risk to the business increases, a possibly worthless speedbump on the hiring path doesn't hurt hiring and effectively makes more work for the HR manager's team, which means team growth - HR win!
- prettyStandard 4y ago
  Probably the big 5 personality matrix/dimensions. It's based on statistics to cluster personality questions and answers that tend to cluster together. The acronym most used to remember those dimensions is OCEAN. Openness - how easily you are willing to accept new ideas Conscientiousness - how careful and how hard working you are Extraversion - how quickly you are to engage with the outside world Agreeableness - how quickly you are to agree versus disagree Neuroticism - easily experienced negative emotions Most people aren't a point on the spectrums, they have a range. For example a lawyer might be very disagreeable at work when talking with opposing counsel, but very agreeable when dealing with their children.
  - Arch-TK 4y ago
weatherlite 4y ago
The competition pool is huge but also the number of jobs. I'm not sure he would have it easier if he specialized in some esoteric think Erlang. Yes he would compete against less people but also have barely any openings to apply to.
- ubercore 4y ago
  I meant even within the world of being a full stack dev, having an "angle" on your experience or resume. Full stack dev with lots of experience in Pandas. Heavy database optimization background, etc etc. Nothing quite as esoteric as Erlang, but I think in a pool that big you need to find something to stand out a bit.
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    Most full stack roles aren't that specialized (by definition). So if someone has a heavy database optimization background he probably wasn't a full stack dev. It's just a different role. Sure you can maybe pick up on some of those skills on your job while troubleshooting some performance issue, but those issues are quite rare and far between. And again, I'm not sure a database optimization guy would find the current market any better than a full stack developer who specialized in Node and React. How many companies need a heavy database optimization background guy? Why does it make you more attractive if you have that on your resume than someone who worked only on Node and React for 8 years?
- nend 4y ago
  At the moment the number of open jobs is not huge. The majority of companies that haven't had lay offs have simply closed their open positions. Combined with a ton of layed off developers, most job postings get hundred of applicants within a few hours.
  - dagw 4y ago
    At the moment the number of open jobs is not huge. As someone else mentioned here, Walmart apparently has over 1000 software related openings right now. I know a few companies outside the traditional 'Silicon Valley' company ecosystem trying to hire developers and I can promise you they're not getting 100s of applications within a few hours. The jobs are definitely out there, they're just not where most people are looking and perhaps not in a field, company or geographic location that are most people's first choice.
yucky 4y ago
> The personality tests can fuck right off, though. Disagree. I can train you to do your job but can't train you to have a better personality. If someone has a toxic personality I would like to screen them out before sinking time into them.
- zbentley 4y ago
  I suspect OP was referring to myers-briggs questionarres or similarly borderline-pseudoscience survey based means of answering "are you a $a or a $b?". I agree that personality is an important thing to consider in interviews. But trying to gauge it with tools like that is at best a waste of time and at worst actively misleading.
- bick_nyers 4y ago
  Then you would need to screen them for personality disorders such as narcicism, not for how introverted they are or how much they appreciate art. No, neuroticism isn't what you are looking for either, neither is conscientiousness. It can be argued that for an academic position you would want high conscientiousness, but I think many would argue that you want some of your professors to have disorganized, messy offices.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  The problem is that the most common "personality test", the "Myers-Briggs" has nothing to do with "personality", let alone "toxic personality", so an argument about "personality" is not an argument for that particular personality test. This is a bait-and-switch dishonest argument - the gap between them is exactly the problem. This is because the "Myers-Briggs" is hogwash, with as much predictive power of personality as astrology. i.e. none. If the people administering them are using them for the intended purpose, they're rejecting candidates on nothing more than a roll of the dice. If not, then as others suggest, they are covert way of "screening for neurodivergent people"" So: This _personality test_ can fuck right off. I doubt that any other quick multiple choice questionnaires are much better. If anyone wants to claim that they're worth anything, show the proof please. https://www.vice.com/en/article/bjv8y5/the-myers-briggs-personality-test-bullshit https://www.vice.com/en/article/bjv8y5/the-myers-briggs-pers... https://amanda-obryan.medium.com/9-reasons-the-myers-briggs-personality-test-is-trash-and-companies-should-never-use-it-again-5fc95eac6d02 https://amanda-obryan.medium.com/9-reasons-the-myers-briggs-... https://www.businessinsider.com/most-personality-tests-junk-science-make-you-cling-to-label-2020-7?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/most-personality-tests-junk-...

0xy 4y ago

Personality tests are IQ tests that don't want to admit to being IQ tests, at least the ones I've taken.

bluedino 4y ago
What about the ones with questions like: When I see an error, it bothers me. Mostly agree Somewhat agree Neither agree or disagree Somewhat disagree Mostly disagree
- WJW 4y ago
  That's just an emotional IQ ("EQ") test for figuring if you can detect what they want to hear.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    Exactly. A neurodivergence filter. Because it's illegal to discriminate against that protected class directly.
- varispeed 4y ago
  For me this is not answerable question because it is lacking context. If it was not possible to go to the next question, it would be where I would end the interview.
  - ubercore 4y ago
    Context is everything, and why these fail. When I did one, the process included the narrative version of the results. I had a question that was something like "It's important to support your organization", which I agree with. In the narrative form of the results, it concluded that I "may not tell the truth to superiors if something is wrong" from that. Of course I support the organization, and I think being honest with superiors is the best way to do that. In the end, these things are so imprecise that you have to get to know somebody to know which parts are accurate (some were) and which aren't. By †he time you know how accurate it was, you know the person well enough to not need the test.
sebzim4500 4y ago
Only if the person taking the test is willing to lie. I imagine most people understand that you are supposed to lie on these tests, but I could imagine some extremely honest people failing them even if they were smart enough to figure out what the employer wants to hear.

imglorp 4y ago

I once aced an interview before and been told they'd make an offer after this one little Big Five personality test, I think it was called. Fail with no feedback. That's not constructive or actionable. Is that test any better than phrenology or palmistry in practice?

varispeed 4y ago
I wonder why personality tests are not illegal? This is essentially screening for neurodivergent people and facilitation of discrimination based on disabilities.
- jtwaleson 4y ago
  Complicated issue, you also want a diverse, balanced team with different personalities.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  My guess would be not enough lawsuits yet. Until risk to the business increases, a possibly worthless speedbump on the hiring path doesn't hurt hiring and effectively makes more work for the HR manager's team, which means team growth - HR win!
prettyStandard 4y ago
Probably the big 5 personality matrix/dimensions. It's based on statistics to cluster personality questions and answers that tend to cluster together. The acronym most used to remember those dimensions is OCEAN. Openness - how easily you are willing to accept new ideas Conscientiousness - how careful and how hard working you are Extraversion - how quickly you are to engage with the outside world Agreeableness - how quickly you are to agree versus disagree Neuroticism - easily experienced negative emotions Most people aren't a point on the spectrums, they have a range. For example a lawyer might be very disagreeable at work when talking with opposing counsel, but very agreeable when dealing with their children.
- Arch-TK 4y ago

weatherlite 4y ago

The competition pool is huge but also the number of jobs. I'm not sure he would have it easier if he specialized in some esoteric think Erlang. Yes he would compete against less people but also have barely any openings to apply to.

ubercore 4y ago
I meant even within the world of being a full stack dev, having an "angle" on your experience or resume. Full stack dev with lots of experience in Pandas. Heavy database optimization background, etc etc. Nothing quite as esoteric as Erlang, but I think in a pool that big you need to find something to stand out a bit.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  Most full stack roles aren't that specialized (by definition). So if someone has a heavy database optimization background he probably wasn't a full stack dev. It's just a different role. Sure you can maybe pick up on some of those skills on your job while troubleshooting some performance issue, but those issues are quite rare and far between. And again, I'm not sure a database optimization guy would find the current market any better than a full stack developer who specialized in Node and React. How many companies need a heavy database optimization background guy? Why does it make you more attractive if you have that on your resume than someone who worked only on Node and React for 8 years?
nend 4y ago
At the moment the number of open jobs is not huge. The majority of companies that haven't had lay offs have simply closed their open positions. Combined with a ton of layed off developers, most job postings get hundred of applicants within a few hours.
- dagw 4y ago
  At the moment the number of open jobs is not huge. As someone else mentioned here, Walmart apparently has over 1000 software related openings right now. I know a few companies outside the traditional 'Silicon Valley' company ecosystem trying to hire developers and I can promise you they're not getting 100s of applications within a few hours. The jobs are definitely out there, they're just not where most people are looking and perhaps not in a field, company or geographic location that are most people's first choice.

yucky 4y ago

> The personality tests can fuck right off, though. Disagree. I can train you to do your job but can't train you to have a better personality. If someone has a toxic personality I would like to screen them out before sinking time into them.

zbentley 4y ago
I suspect OP was referring to myers-briggs questionarres or similarly borderline-pseudoscience survey based means of answering "are you a $a or a $b?". I agree that personality is an important thing to consider in interviews. But trying to gauge it with tools like that is at best a waste of time and at worst actively misleading.
bick_nyers 4y ago
Then you would need to screen them for personality disorders such as narcicism, not for how introverted they are or how much they appreciate art. No, neuroticism isn't what you are looking for either, neither is conscientiousness. It can be argued that for an academic position you would want high conscientiousness, but I think many would argue that you want some of your professors to have disorganized, messy offices.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
The problem is that the most common "personality test", the "Myers-Briggs" has nothing to do with "personality", let alone "toxic personality", so an argument about "personality" is not an argument for that particular personality test. This is a bait-and-switch dishonest argument - the gap between them is exactly the problem. This is because the "Myers-Briggs" is hogwash, with as much predictive power of personality as astrology. i.e. none. If the people administering them are using them for the intended purpose, they're rejecting candidates on nothing more than a roll of the dice. If not, then as others suggest, they are covert way of "screening for neurodivergent people"" So: This _personality test_ can fuck right off. I doubt that any other quick multiple choice questionnaires are much better. If anyone wants to claim that they're worth anything, show the proof please. https://www.vice.com/en/article/bjv8y5/the-myers-briggs-personality-test-bullshit https://www.vice.com/en/article/bjv8y5/the-myers-briggs-pers... https://amanda-obryan.medium.com/9-reasons-the-myers-briggs-personality-test-is-trash-and-companies-should-never-use-it-again-5fc95eac6d02 https://amanda-obryan.medium.com/9-reasons-the-myers-briggs-... https://www.businessinsider.com/most-personality-tests-junk-science-make-you-cling-to-label-2020-7?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/most-personality-tests-junk-...