I think discourse is hard when people don't really define what they mean by socialism or capitalism. It's fair to say a capitalist system is based on private o

I think discourse is hard when people don't really define what they mean by socialism or capitalism. It's fair to say a capitalist system is based on private ownership and free markets. With the first one really being the key that differentiates it to other systems and particularly socialism. Now, socialism is a bit more muddy because you can either go the state route or the co-op route. Or of course, a mix of both. In a country like Norway for example a large part of the production is owned by the state (because StatOil is state-owned and it's the largest contributor to the Norwegian economy) the state also manages their wealth fund which as well generates revenue for the people. In Norway there's also a large quantity of co-ops, consumer or worker so all in all, in Norway the economy is to a high degree "socially owned". Of course, it's still a country that has private ownership and there are no particular restrictions to it. So is it a socialist country, is it a capitalist country? It's really hard to say, I think it's probably accurate to call it a mixed economy. But if we were to simply say "socialism is when the government owns the means of production" then... it would still probably be a mixed economy? But an economy that is entirely run through co-ops, I would hardly call it capitalist even though it would have no more state intervention than current economies do. How a state intervenes is as important as how much it intervenes. I mean, I don't think anyone would call Keynes a socialist yet he argued in favour of state intervention. A lot of people think that socialism might also be tied to planned economies, but that sort of forgets a whole diverse range of economic thinking like market socialism (Xi recently talked about the Chinese economy in this light). So it seems to me like you're aggregating things too much and not really looking at the system through the complex lens that this discussion requires.