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I'm confused. you don't use local backups for privacy reasons, but you use a 3rd party telegram service to store your contacts

MrDresden 4y ago
Also confused over this. If privacy is a concern (and it should be) then why not simply host an instance of say Nextcloud and use something like DavX5 to sync contacts to it. Add incremental encrypted backups to a 3rd service and your good. This is my setup at least.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >Also confused over this. I think he means Telegram already has his contacts since he uses it to communicate with them.
  - MrDresden 4y ago
    >>Also confused over this. >I think he means Telegram already has his contacts since he uses it to communicate with them. I am confused over the statement that local backups are not being done due to privacy concerns, while Telegram, which is not a end-to-end encrypted service, is. These two facts stand at odds with each other. If your immediate local surroundings are not safe enough for encrypted backups of your own data, then remote environments which you have no control over are not going to be any more secure or safe.
    - xkcd1963 4y ago
      Whatsapp gives the option to store backups on my google's drive account which has a free max. of 15 GB compare that to the limitless storage on Telegram and whatsapp offers the encryption of the backup optionally. https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg One way or another my backup is stored on a 3rd party service, though I confess, it is of course better if it is encrypted. I don't buy that Whatsapp cares about my privacy. Why would the option to encrypt be optional?
      - MrDresden 4y ago
        The title talkes about storing contacts, while you hint at 15GBs as being too little. It would seem that the original title does not match what is being talked about. Storing you chat logs is a completely different discussion altogether. And frankly I do not have a horse in this race, as I trust neither Telegram nor Whatsapp and treat all my chat logs as disposable. Contacts however I save via my own infrastructure, as previously mentioned.
        xkcd1963 4y ago
        > The title talkes about storing contact Yes. Good that we are on the same page here somewhat. > while you hint at 15GBs as being too little I wonder if you checked the image I provided in the link. There you can read that Whatsapp would store all messages and media, with the option to also include videos. Take notice that it is the only option to have a backup provided by Whatsapp. I don't have the direct option, as you previously had mentioned, to create a local backup. The backup that Whatsapp creates can only be used in combination with google drive. > It would seem that the original title does not match what is being talked about. You introduced the topic of local backups; that is not possible with Whatsapp. Storing you chat logs is a completely different discussion altogether. I don't know how you would do that without 3rd party software for Whatsapp. > And frankly I do not have a horse in this race, as I trust neither Telegram nor Whatsapp and treat all my chat logs as disposable. Good for you to have an opinion on a problem that we don't share. > Contacts however I save via my own infrastructure, as previously mentioned. I actually also save (very important) contacts somewhere else, but that doesn't mean that Whatsapp inconveniences me A LOT, whilst its competition never causes me similar problems ever. ::: EDIT: After much thought I guess I understand what is confusing about my message. Let me put it this way: Whatsapp: hypothetical option 1) Limitless storage unencrypted or encrypted on whatsapp: I take it real option 2) Limited storage unencrypted or not on whatsapp: No real option 3) lose all my candies Telegram: real option 1) Limitless storage unencrypted on telegram: I take it
  - xkcd1963 4y ago
    As example, Whatsapp deletes all messages, all stickers and all media shared. Heck it deletes even media that is older than 3 months (shows a blurred version of it that does not load). It also deletes all contacts except groups for some reason. The contacts that remain within those groups are only saved as phone numbers. Telegram helped me to look up for contacts searching for their name and translate them to Whatsapp, since many people only use Whatsapp actively.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  Maybe it's out of reach in terms of budget? Maybe they don't have the knowhow? Maybe the attack vector is someone in the home? "Why don't people just" is a train of thought that comes from a very privileged place, which whilst well-intentioned, frequently is oblivious to how fortunate they are.
- xkcd1963 4y ago
  Not enough allocation of time, no high priority in my life.
bartvk 4y ago
They could be living in an abusive environment. I don't know, I'm just guessing here.
xkcd1963 4y ago
Whatsapp gives the option to store backups on my google's drive account which has a free max. of 15 GB compare that to the limitless storage on Telegram and whatsapp offers the encryption of the backup optionally. https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg Facebook and Whatsapp compare the interlinked contacts aggressively, have done so in the past https://blog.f-secure.com/why-does-facebook-want-my-phone-number/ https://blog.f-secure.com/why-does-facebook-want-my-phone-nu... and will continue to do so. It's false to believe Meta is not milking our data. EDIT: I'm not saying you believed that, I'm just stating that at least at Telegram I've limitless storage for a decade now AND they don't pretend to lose my contacts.
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 4y ago
  WhatsApp backups currently do not count towards your Google Drive storage quota or account limit.
  - xkcd1963 4y ago
    That is convenient for Whatsapp but not for me

MrDresden 4y ago

Also confused over this. If privacy is a concern (and it should be) then why not simply host an instance of say Nextcloud and use something like DavX5 to sync contacts to it. Add incremental encrypted backups to a 3rd service and your good. This is my setup at least.

ashwagary 4y ago
>Also confused over this. I think he means Telegram already has his contacts since he uses it to communicate with them.
- MrDresden 4y ago
  >>Also confused over this. >I think he means Telegram already has his contacts since he uses it to communicate with them. I am confused over the statement that local backups are not being done due to privacy concerns, while Telegram, which is not a end-to-end encrypted service, is. These two facts stand at odds with each other. If your immediate local surroundings are not safe enough for encrypted backups of your own data, then remote environments which you have no control over are not going to be any more secure or safe.
  - xkcd1963 4y ago
    Whatsapp gives the option to store backups on my google's drive account which has a free max. of 15 GB compare that to the limitless storage on Telegram and whatsapp offers the encryption of the backup optionally. https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg One way or another my backup is stored on a 3rd party service, though I confess, it is of course better if it is encrypted. I don't buy that Whatsapp cares about my privacy. Why would the option to encrypt be optional?
    - MrDresden 4y ago
      The title talkes about storing contacts, while you hint at 15GBs as being too little. It would seem that the original title does not match what is being talked about. Storing you chat logs is a completely different discussion altogether. And frankly I do not have a horse in this race, as I trust neither Telegram nor Whatsapp and treat all my chat logs as disposable. Contacts however I save via my own infrastructure, as previously mentioned.
      - xkcd1963 4y ago
        > The title talkes about storing contact Yes. Good that we are on the same page here somewhat. > while you hint at 15GBs as being too little I wonder if you checked the image I provided in the link. There you can read that Whatsapp would store all messages and media, with the option to also include videos. Take notice that it is the only option to have a backup provided by Whatsapp. I don't have the direct option, as you previously had mentioned, to create a local backup. The backup that Whatsapp creates can only be used in combination with google drive. > It would seem that the original title does not match what is being talked about. You introduced the topic of local backups; that is not possible with Whatsapp. Storing you chat logs is a completely different discussion altogether. I don't know how you would do that without 3rd party software for Whatsapp. > And frankly I do not have a horse in this race, as I trust neither Telegram nor Whatsapp and treat all my chat logs as disposable. Good for you to have an opinion on a problem that we don't share. > Contacts however I save via my own infrastructure, as previously mentioned. I actually also save (very important) contacts somewhere else, but that doesn't mean that Whatsapp inconveniences me A LOT, whilst its competition never causes me similar problems ever. ::: EDIT: After much thought I guess I understand what is confusing about my message. Let me put it this way: Whatsapp: hypothetical option 1) Limitless storage unencrypted or encrypted on whatsapp: I take it real option 2) Limited storage unencrypted or not on whatsapp: No real option 3) lose all my candies Telegram: real option 1) Limitless storage unencrypted on telegram: I take it
- xkcd1963 4y ago
  As example, Whatsapp deletes all messages, all stickers and all media shared. Heck it deletes even media that is older than 3 months (shows a blurred version of it that does not load). It also deletes all contacts except groups for some reason. The contacts that remain within those groups are only saved as phone numbers. Telegram helped me to look up for contacts searching for their name and translate them to Whatsapp, since many people only use Whatsapp actively.
hammyhavoc 4y ago
Maybe it's out of reach in terms of budget? Maybe they don't have the knowhow? Maybe the attack vector is someone in the home? "Why don't people just" is a train of thought that comes from a very privileged place, which whilst well-intentioned, frequently is oblivious to how fortunate they are.
xkcd1963 4y ago
Not enough allocation of time, no high priority in my life.

bartvk 4y ago

They could be living in an abusive environment. I don't know, I'm just guessing here.

xkcd1963 4y ago

Whatsapp gives the option to store backups on my google's drive account which has a free max. of 15 GB compare that to the limitless storage on Telegram and whatsapp offers the encryption of the backup optionally. https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg https://i.imgur.com/R3j0a3h.jpg Facebook and Whatsapp compare the interlinked contacts aggressively, have done so in the past https://blog.f-secure.com/why-does-facebook-want-my-phone-number/ https://blog.f-secure.com/why-does-facebook-want-my-phone-nu... and will continue to do so. It's false to believe Meta is not milking our data. EDIT: I'm not saying you believed that, I'm just stating that at least at Telegram I've limitless storage for a decade now AND they don't pretend to lose my contacts.

BOOSTERHIDROGEN 4y ago
WhatsApp backups currently do not count towards your Google Drive storage quota or account limit.
- xkcd1963 4y ago
  That is convenient for Whatsapp but not for me