4 ms·

Friendly reminder that leaded gas is still used all over the United States today in airports (avgas). And if you live near an airport you are probably affected

by qqtt 4y ago

Friendly reminder that leaded gas is still used all over the United States today in airports (avgas). And if you live near an airport you are probably affected by elevated lead levels. https://news.sccgov.org/news-release/study-commissioned-county-santa-clara-finds-increased-lead-levels-children-living-near https://news.sccgov.org/news-release/study-commissioned-coun...

renewiltord 4y ago
This is what people really mean when they say "regulations are written in blood". If there isn't visible blood, we're usually happy to hurt people. FAA refuses to act here. Regulations are written in blood. And no one is bleeding yet.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  The people who live near airports are. Guess who usually lives near airports though.
dmitrygr 4y ago
you picked a very bad news source. this reporting has been debunked. they failed to control for increased lead in environment. neighborhoods NOT under flight paths but in the same area also have higher lead levels. this is sponsored by land developers hoping to close KRHV
- qqtt 4y ago
  It's not like it's a controversial topic. It's a well known, well studied, and well documented effect. https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/2/1/pgac285/6979725 https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/2/1/pgac285/69797... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653516313285 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00456... https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AEAT-05-2020-0108/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AEAT-05-... https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/60c74f2e0f50dbe15d397360 https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/60c74f2... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231011007333 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13522... Avgas is unnecessarily putting more lead into the air. Any amount of lead in the air is bad.
- btgeekboy 4y ago
  Do you have a citation for the debunking? The WA state legislature is trying to push through a bunch of unfunded mandates of dubious effectiveness on airports based on this study.
  - qqtt 4y ago
    Always be skeptical of individuals who claim things are debunked without citing their sources. Also, it is true that neighborhoods near the airport not in the flight path also have higher lead levels than average, but I'm not sure how that helps the case - there is elevated lead levels near airports, which can adversely affect your health.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Blood lead levels are overwhelmingly affected by local exposure, basically the history of lead use where you live, work and your food is from. While leaded avgas is not great the FAA just approved a replacement and I'm sure it will be in use quickly because "hurr durr muh lead" is the rallying cry of obnoxious suburbanites who just bought a house beside an airport and now want it shut down and everyone involved in general aviation has a large incentive to silence that screeching. Now, before any jerks show up to strawman me as endorsing lead exposure so they can bust out their favorite "no safe level" quip that they love to circle jerk it to, I'm not. I'm saying that while the effect is measurable it's not meaningful in light of the fact that you or anyone else's lead exposure is overwhelmingly dominated by local sources.
- than3 4y ago
  The problem with this line of plausible but non-scientific thought is that you base it solely on 'blood lead levels' as though they would be constant, without explaining the process taken to test. The latter part is critically important with heavy metals. Heavy metals in general never stay in the blood very long, the body binds them as quickly as it can, and the only way to accurately test involves taking a chelator first (to cause it to release into the blood stream) and then testing for acute poisoning (by causing it). There may be newer methods that have been developed since, but as of 2008 that was true. Anyone who has suffered mercury or lead poisoning that was diagnosed by a medical professional would be aware of this, which is why there is no safe level, it bioaccumulates, and is a time-bomb for acute poisoning if it ever gets released. Incidentally cilantro is a powerful chelator, and is used in food. Many people who have suffered poisoning get powerful headaches and other poisoning symptoms which can mimic many symptoms on the ADD/Autism/ADHD spectrum when eating this food, and often themselves don't know why.
- belorn 4y ago
  For some reasons, every area in close proximity to airports with moderate to high piston engine aircraft traffic have exceptional high local exposure (according to EPA). There could be a correlation or even a causation link. EPA at least think so, which is why they changed the rules in 2008 by issuing a new minimum standard. The new replacement fuels are good, but they have one general large drawback. They require a recertification of the engine/frame of the plane. According to the lobby group AOPA, it will cost the industry in excess of $150 billion annually in the US alone. In response, EPA issued an statement that there will be no phase-out date for planes to meet the new minimum standard, saying that it is the FAA responsibility to issue a process so that airplanes fulfills the new minimum standard. The FAA in turn said that regulating lead in avgas is an EPA responsibility, and they will not issue a phase-out date for planes to meet the new minimum standard. That has been the last word from both agencies since 2010.

by qqtt 4y ago

renewiltord 4y ago

This is what people really mean when they say "regulations are written in blood". If there isn't visible blood, we're usually happy to hurt people. FAA refuses to act here. Regulations are written in blood. And no one is bleeding yet.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
The people who live near airports are. Guess who usually lives near airports though.

dmitrygr 4y ago

you picked a very bad news source. this reporting has been debunked. they failed to control for increased lead in environment. neighborhoods NOT under flight paths but in the same area also have higher lead levels. this is sponsored by land developers hoping to close KRHV

qqtt 4y ago
It's not like it's a controversial topic. It's a well known, well studied, and well documented effect. https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/2/1/pgac285/6979725 https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/2/1/pgac285/69797... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0045653516313285 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00456... https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AEAT-05-2020-0108/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/AEAT-05-... https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/60c74f2e0f50dbe15d397360 https://chemrxiv.org/engage/chemrxiv/article-details/60c74f2... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231011007333 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13522... Avgas is unnecessarily putting more lead into the air. Any amount of lead in the air is bad.
btgeekboy 4y ago
Do you have a citation for the debunking? The WA state legislature is trying to push through a bunch of unfunded mandates of dubious effectiveness on airports based on this study.
- qqtt 4y ago
  Always be skeptical of individuals who claim things are debunked without citing their sources. Also, it is true that neighborhoods near the airport not in the flight path also have higher lead levels than average, but I'm not sure how that helps the case - there is elevated lead levels near airports, which can adversely affect your health.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

Blood lead levels are overwhelmingly affected by local exposure, basically the history of lead use where you live, work and your food is from. While leaded avgas is not great the FAA just approved a replacement and I'm sure it will be in use quickly because "hurr durr muh lead" is the rallying cry of obnoxious suburbanites who just bought a house beside an airport and now want it shut down and everyone involved in general aviation has a large incentive to silence that screeching. Now, before any jerks show up to strawman me as endorsing lead exposure so they can bust out their favorite "no safe level" quip that they love to circle jerk it to, I'm not. I'm saying that while the effect is measurable it's not meaningful in light of the fact that you or anyone else's lead exposure is overwhelmingly dominated by local sources.

than3 4y ago
The problem with this line of plausible but non-scientific thought is that you base it solely on 'blood lead levels' as though they would be constant, without explaining the process taken to test. The latter part is critically important with heavy metals. Heavy metals in general never stay in the blood very long, the body binds them as quickly as it can, and the only way to accurately test involves taking a chelator first (to cause it to release into the blood stream) and then testing for acute poisoning (by causing it). There may be newer methods that have been developed since, but as of 2008 that was true. Anyone who has suffered mercury or lead poisoning that was diagnosed by a medical professional would be aware of this, which is why there is no safe level, it bioaccumulates, and is a time-bomb for acute poisoning if it ever gets released. Incidentally cilantro is a powerful chelator, and is used in food. Many people who have suffered poisoning get powerful headaches and other poisoning symptoms which can mimic many symptoms on the ADD/Autism/ADHD spectrum when eating this food, and often themselves don't know why.
belorn 4y ago
For some reasons, every area in close proximity to airports with moderate to high piston engine aircraft traffic have exceptional high local exposure (according to EPA). There could be a correlation or even a causation link. EPA at least think so, which is why they changed the rules in 2008 by issuing a new minimum standard. The new replacement fuels are good, but they have one general large drawback. They require a recertification of the engine/frame of the plane. According to the lobby group AOPA, it will cost the industry in excess of $150 billion annually in the US alone. In response, EPA issued an statement that there will be no phase-out date for planes to meet the new minimum standard, saying that it is the FAA responsibility to issue a process so that airplanes fulfills the new minimum standard. The FAA in turn said that regulating lead in avgas is an EPA responsibility, and they will not issue a phase-out date for planes to meet the new minimum standard. That has been the last word from both agencies since 2010.