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So you don’t believe a country, who in the year 2023, systematically suppresses free speech, reporters, it’s own citizens, disregards it’s neighbors borders in

by genmud 4y ago

So you don’t believe a country, who in the year 2023, systematically suppresses free speech, reporters, it’s own citizens, disregards it’s neighbors borders in violation of international norms and continually sides with Russia in its war of aggression against Ukraine… who also has demonstrated the ability as well as the willingness in the last 2-3 years to exert both overt and covert controls over social media platforms within its sphere of influence… Is effectively the same or less of a threat than Facebook, Snapchat or Instagram? You really don’t see any strategic or geopolitical concerns and think that FAANGs are more dangerous? I’m genuinely curious.

colechristensen 4y ago
Data is for sale for nearly every public interaction you have, every dollar you spend, every medical appointment, your location from your phone, really just everything, with at best laughable attempts to anonymize it. Everyone is collecting data about everything they can and figuring out how to monetize it. Facebook and google in particular are worst offenders here but there are plenty of others. I am much more concerned with the effects and consumers of this data which have much more to benefit from it and have. Unless you’re an individual of particular interest to China (people in politics and defense should avoid tiktok) there’s much less to fear than domestic sources and sinks of data.
- jmpman 4y ago
  I strongly disagree. The anti-Ukraine messaging recently adopted by the right didn’t come from the individuals thoughtful consideration of geopolitics, but a careful influence campaign by Russia. China will do the same in their attempt to retake Taiwan, and TikTok will be their mechanism. Anyone speaking up against Chinese aggression will be silenced and any pro-Chinese voices will be amplified. This isn’t about silencing Charli DAmelio’s first amendment rights to wiggle, but China’s attempt to sway foreign policy while they crush yet another democracy.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    >a careful influence campaign by Russia Which helped Trump get elected, which was enabled by a former-KGB-led Cambridge Analytica which was sold data en masse by Facebook who after the fact put on a show about how it was not used as intended. BS, they didn't care, they just wanted to make money. Everybody is doing it and you only know about the ones who got caught. Again, much more worried about FAANG+ than TikTok.
    - jmpman 4y ago
      Do you think TikTok isn’t the next Cambridge Analytica? Are they benign? No, they are fully controlled by the CCP and will be used to crush Taiwan.
- genmud 4y ago
  Tell me you don’t understand the issue, without telling me you don’t understand the issue. First off, raw data is not for sale from FAANGs, it is their most jealously guarded golden goose. Second, the entire point isn’t that you as an individual have something to fear from the CCP, the point is they have/can/will use their platform to push specific viewpoints, amplify messages with the goal of influencing public opinion. AKA propaganda. Say what you want about big tech, but continuing to allow the CCP a direct conduit into 140 million Americans is pants on head stupid. Bytedance have known about the issues and have yet to actually meaningfully address these concerns. In fact they have done thing which make things worse, they have actively obfuscated things and used their platform to go after reporters. Anyone who says this is protectionism is either naive or not making a genuine argument.
dayjaby 4y ago
Any source for China siding with Russia? The impression that I've got over the last 400 days is that China tries to take up the role as a mediator.
- chronophylos 4y ago
  China is supporting Russia with drones and other equipment such as radios. https://www.bbc.com/news/60571253 https://www.bbc.com/news/60571253
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- timeon 4y ago
  Mediator should communicate with both sides. Xi already met with Putin more then once, while he was not in Kiev.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
In the first sentence you're basically describing the united states can you see that? The iraq occupation is on everyone's minds recently and that was basically the ukraine invasion of the 2000s. We have protestors facing life in prison on terrorism charges for putting paint on a road, we have an inward focused civil surveillance program rivaled only by, yes, china. We're no better!
- genmud 4y ago
  Being blunt, the mere fact that you can talk about that in public shows me you don’t truly understand the difference between US or European values and CCP values. You can and should have policy discussions about how the US isn’t perfect and can do better, since in many ways this isn’t possible in many parts of the world. If you live in the west and can’t see that CCP interests are not aligned with the wests interests, you are a fool.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    No I clearly see that. I also see that the US's interests aren't aligned with the world's interests. They're only partially aligned with my own interests. A mismatch of interests doesn't make an entity evil. Their other actions may make them so and I think there's a compelling argument that they do. But so do our actions. And I'm not even arguing that we're "as bad" or anything like that. But we are certainly bad enough and if you can condemn a chinese tech product because of the actions of china you can certainly condemn an american tech product because of the actions of the US.
    - genmud 4y ago
      I think something you should consider is the heirarchical nature and the tight integration of business, politics and social policy in the CCP vs the US. In the US, it’s more like a loose federation of aligned interests vs a top down, integrated system. If Facebook is doing bad things and being used to facilitate propaganda, it’s largely a failure of Facebook and the lack of appropriate legislation or oversight. Whereas TikTok has been accused of promoting pro-China viewpoints, and the reality is the way business is operated there, the lines are blurred between what TikTok the company does and what TikTok the CCP controlled entity does.

by genmud 4y ago

colechristensen 4y ago

Data is for sale for nearly every public interaction you have, every dollar you spend, every medical appointment, your location from your phone, really just everything, with at best laughable attempts to anonymize it. Everyone is collecting data about everything they can and figuring out how to monetize it. Facebook and google in particular are worst offenders here but there are plenty of others. I am much more concerned with the effects and consumers of this data which have much more to benefit from it and have. Unless you’re an individual of particular interest to China (people in politics and defense should avoid tiktok) there’s much less to fear than domestic sources and sinks of data.

jmpman 4y ago
I strongly disagree. The anti-Ukraine messaging recently adopted by the right didn’t come from the individuals thoughtful consideration of geopolitics, but a careful influence campaign by Russia. China will do the same in their attempt to retake Taiwan, and TikTok will be their mechanism. Anyone speaking up against Chinese aggression will be silenced and any pro-Chinese voices will be amplified. This isn’t about silencing Charli DAmelio’s first amendment rights to wiggle, but China’s attempt to sway foreign policy while they crush yet another democracy.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  >a careful influence campaign by Russia Which helped Trump get elected, which was enabled by a former-KGB-led Cambridge Analytica which was sold data en masse by Facebook who after the fact put on a show about how it was not used as intended. BS, they didn't care, they just wanted to make money. Everybody is doing it and you only know about the ones who got caught. Again, much more worried about FAANG+ than TikTok.
  - jmpman 4y ago
    Do you think TikTok isn’t the next Cambridge Analytica? Are they benign? No, they are fully controlled by the CCP and will be used to crush Taiwan.
genmud 4y ago
Tell me you don’t understand the issue, without telling me you don’t understand the issue. First off, raw data is not for sale from FAANGs, it is their most jealously guarded golden goose. Second, the entire point isn’t that you as an individual have something to fear from the CCP, the point is they have/can/will use their platform to push specific viewpoints, amplify messages with the goal of influencing public opinion. AKA propaganda. Say what you want about big tech, but continuing to allow the CCP a direct conduit into 140 million Americans is pants on head stupid. Bytedance have known about the issues and have yet to actually meaningfully address these concerns. In fact they have done thing which make things worse, they have actively obfuscated things and used their platform to go after reporters. Anyone who says this is protectionism is either naive or not making a genuine argument.

dayjaby 4y ago

Any source for China siding with Russia? The impression that I've got over the last 400 days is that China tries to take up the role as a mediator.

chronophylos 4y ago
China is supporting Russia with drones and other equipment such as radios. https://www.bbc.com/news/60571253 https://www.bbc.com/news/60571253
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
timeon 4y ago
Mediator should communicate with both sides. Xi already met with Putin more then once, while he was not in Kiev.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

In the first sentence you're basically describing the united states can you see that? The iraq occupation is on everyone's minds recently and that was basically the ukraine invasion of the 2000s. We have protestors facing life in prison on terrorism charges for putting paint on a road, we have an inward focused civil surveillance program rivaled only by, yes, china. We're no better!

genmud 4y ago
Being blunt, the mere fact that you can talk about that in public shows me you don’t truly understand the difference between US or European values and CCP values. You can and should have policy discussions about how the US isn’t perfect and can do better, since in many ways this isn’t possible in many parts of the world. If you live in the west and can’t see that CCP interests are not aligned with the wests interests, you are a fool.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  No I clearly see that. I also see that the US's interests aren't aligned with the world's interests. They're only partially aligned with my own interests. A mismatch of interests doesn't make an entity evil. Their other actions may make them so and I think there's a compelling argument that they do. But so do our actions. And I'm not even arguing that we're "as bad" or anything like that. But we are certainly bad enough and if you can condemn a chinese tech product because of the actions of china you can certainly condemn an american tech product because of the actions of the US.
  - genmud 4y ago
    I think something you should consider is the heirarchical nature and the tight integration of business, politics and social policy in the CCP vs the US. In the US, it’s more like a loose federation of aligned interests vs a top down, integrated system. If Facebook is doing bad things and being used to facilitate propaganda, it’s largely a failure of Facebook and the lack of appropriate legislation or oversight. Whereas TikTok has been accused of promoting pro-China viewpoints, and the reality is the way business is operated there, the lines are blurred between what TikTok the company does and what TikTok the CCP controlled entity does.