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I work as a drilling and explosives engineer at an active mine. I don't see the value-add here, to be honest. Modern explosives management (in a mining context)

by loufe 4y ago

I work as a drilling and explosives engineer at an active mine. I don't see the value-add here, to be honest. Modern explosives management (in a mining context) is extraordinarily well managed. ANFO (ammonium nitrate fuel oil) which is the dominant explosive type is so hardy that you can hold a flame to it or shoot it with a firearm and you will not succeed in detonating it. 3-stage explosives systems (detonator-->booster-->ANFO) is a fantastic way of managing risk. Detonators cannot set off ANFO, the booster is required middle step. I won't pretend to have studied the phenomenon, but the only undesired detonations I've heard of so far in my career have all been a result of detonators inadvertantly set off. The latest examples I know of being wireless electric detonators (which are being phased out as they're inferior to electronic detonators,which offer more protection) set off because of malfunctioning devices emitting the required radio waves, yikes! The explosion in Beirut can hardly be considered in the same category as that was an explosion of explosive precursor, effectively unrelated. I'm struggling to understand what the target market for this type of innovation is. Is it bulk transport of explosive materials between the manufacturer (like Orica or Dyno-Nobel) and individual mine sites? That part is already extremely safe. You'd need specialized equipment at each mine to mix the water back in, with maintenance and calibration requirements. There's no way this could be between the surface and the holes into which the explosives are loaded, for so many reasons. I also wonder about the consistency and quality of the resulting product, the balance for these explosives is already such a tuned and precise.

WatchDog 4y ago
There are a number of very high-profile accidents with ammonium nitrate[0]. It can be detonated without a detonator+booster, although the mechanism isn't well understood, seems like in a fire it can form more volatile compounds with soot and other contaminants. Still, I would agree, it's generally a very safe compound. It's handled every day in enormous quantities. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ammonium_nitrate_disasters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ammonium_nitrate_disas...
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  Good call out. It’s generally very safe, but when it goes wrong, it’s catastrophic. Grandparent’s comment feels out of touch - looking at it from another lens: flying is generally safe but there is a certain unique set of circumstances that cause catastrophic failure and plane crashes. Do you just ignore the process and materials improvements because that certain set of events is super rare? No, you include the improvement in your process. That attitude has allowed FAA and Airlines in general to become much safer over the past 40 years (1). 1: https://www.bts.gov/content/us-general-aviationa-safety-data https://www.bts.gov/content/us-general-aviationa-safety-data
- loufe 4y ago
  Good counter, I suppose it's irresponsible to act as though ANFO / ammonium nitrate alone is fully innert. What you'll notice looking through that list though is the vast majority of those accidents are related to fertilizer production. It seems silly but partly it's a volume matter, partly it must be an industry attitude. When people think of mines, explosives come to mind. There's relatively few companies controlling the worlds' supply chains so good practices are widespread. The same cannot be said for fertilizer products though, given the ubiquitous use, high tonnage, and lack of consolidation and awareness.

by loufe 4y ago

WatchDog 4y ago

There are a number of very high-profile accidents with ammonium nitrate[0]. It can be detonated without a detonator+booster, although the mechanism isn't well understood, seems like in a fire it can form more volatile compounds with soot and other contaminants. Still, I would agree, it's generally a very safe compound. It's handled every day in enormous quantities. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ammonium_nitrate_disasters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ammonium_nitrate_disas...

SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
Good call out. It’s generally very safe, but when it goes wrong, it’s catastrophic. Grandparent’s comment feels out of touch - looking at it from another lens: flying is generally safe but there is a certain unique set of circumstances that cause catastrophic failure and plane crashes. Do you just ignore the process and materials improvements because that certain set of events is super rare? No, you include the improvement in your process. That attitude has allowed FAA and Airlines in general to become much safer over the past 40 years (1). 1: https://www.bts.gov/content/us-general-aviationa-safety-data https://www.bts.gov/content/us-general-aviationa-safety-data
loufe 4y ago
Good counter, I suppose it's irresponsible to act as though ANFO / ammonium nitrate alone is fully innert. What you'll notice looking through that list though is the vast majority of those accidents are related to fertilizer production. It seems silly but partly it's a volume matter, partly it must be an industry attitude. When people think of mines, explosives come to mind. There's relatively few companies controlling the worlds' supply chains so good practices are widespread. The same cannot be said for fertilizer products though, given the ubiquitous use, high tonnage, and lack of consolidation and awareness.