4 ms·

> The Select Committee on Intelligence in the U.S. Senate Ah yes, the senate. How could we forget the paragons of truth? They absolutely have no incentives to

by _gabe_ 4y ago

> The Select Committee on Intelligence in the U.S. Senate Ah yes, the senate. How could we forget the paragons of truth? They absolutely have no incentives to lie or make hyperbolic claims to support any agendas. They're the epitome of our humble faithful civil servants.

thakoppno 4y ago
> Not a single person from the U.S. Government ever reached out to me. - Konstantin Kilimnik What kind of investigation doesn’t interview the primary suspects? How did Mueller not know about Fusion GPS when questioned by Congress?
immanentize 4y ago
You could just believe Trump on his word but that seemed to change. Unless there is a perjury penalty involved, and suddenly there was little to go on.
mikeyouse 4y ago
The Republican Senate report verified nearly all of the points in the Mueller report. Their incentives were 100% aligned with finding nothing and yet.. https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu... The irony of people in this thread not reading primary sources and instead relying on weird "news" reports that nothing was found is a bit much.
- thakoppno 4y ago
  > While the Committee does not describe the final result as a complete picture, this volume provides the most comprehensive description to date of Russia's activities and the threat they posed. Subsequent to the Senate report, has any information corroborated the allegations about Manefort?
  - mikeyouse 4y ago
    Aside from being convicted at trial in two separate Federal jurisdictions and agreeing to forfeit tens of millions of dollars he illicitly earned while working for the Russian billionaire in question you mean? What specific corroboration are you looking for?
    - thakoppno 4y ago
      > Manafort has not been charged with any crimes related to the Trump campaign or Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-manafort-witness-mueller-20180608-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-manafort-witness-mu...
      - mikeyouse 4y ago
        The core allegation against Manafort in the Mueller report is that he was paying debts back to the Russian billionaire who bankrolled his life [this is undisputed, the tens of millions of dollars in unreported income came directly from Deripaska] by having clandestine meetings with an associate of Deripaska's, Konstantin Kilminik [This is also undisputed, they met regularly including at the famous cigar bar in NYC], where Manafort passed confidential campaign data to Kilminik [also undisputed] which Kilminik then shared with Deripaska. Perhaps the 'shared with Deripaska' part is disputed? But I don't even think that is.. again, what specific corroboration are you looking for? Is your contention that Trump's campaign manager, who was twice convicted of laundering tens of millions of dollars for a Russian billionaire, and who admitted to providing confidential campaign information to that same billionaire via a cutout, needs to be convicted of some specific crime related to that before we believe all of their admissions? Read the Mueller report! Or the Senate report! They are very detailed and highlight exactly where they have unanswered questions. None of their questions involve Manafort's behavior or intentions.
        thakoppno 4y ago
        To boil it down as much as possible, I’m not persuaded Trump (or anyone else) conspired with Russia to win the presidency. The prosecution of Gates and Manafort would not have proceeded had the election swung the other way. In totality it seems to me the Special Council investigation was a political hatchet job more than anything resembling a pursuit of justice. For whatever it’s worth, I do not support Trump but feel compelled to note perceived injustices when observed.

by _gabe_ 4y ago

thakoppno 4y ago

> Not a single person from the U.S. Government ever reached out to me. - Konstantin Kilimnik What kind of investigation doesn’t interview the primary suspects? How did Mueller not know about Fusion GPS when questioned by Congress?

immanentize 4y ago

You could just believe Trump on his word but that seemed to change. Unless there is a perjury penalty involved, and suddenly there was little to go on.

mikeyouse 4y ago

The Republican Senate report verified nearly all of the points in the Mueller report. Their incentives were 100% aligned with finding nothing and yet.. https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/docu... The irony of people in this thread not reading primary sources and instead relying on weird "news" reports that nothing was found is a bit much.

thakoppno 4y ago
> While the Committee does not describe the final result as a complete picture, this volume provides the most comprehensive description to date of Russia's activities and the threat they posed. Subsequent to the Senate report, has any information corroborated the allegations about Manefort?
- mikeyouse 4y ago
  Aside from being convicted at trial in two separate Federal jurisdictions and agreeing to forfeit tens of millions of dollars he illicitly earned while working for the Russian billionaire in question you mean? What specific corroboration are you looking for?
  - thakoppno 4y ago
    > Manafort has not been charged with any crimes related to the Trump campaign or Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-manafort-witness-mueller-20180608-story.html https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-manafort-witness-mu...
    - mikeyouse 4y ago
      The core allegation against Manafort in the Mueller report is that he was paying debts back to the Russian billionaire who bankrolled his life [this is undisputed, the tens of millions of dollars in unreported income came directly from Deripaska] by having clandestine meetings with an associate of Deripaska's, Konstantin Kilminik [This is also undisputed, they met regularly including at the famous cigar bar in NYC], where Manafort passed confidential campaign data to Kilminik [also undisputed] which Kilminik then shared with Deripaska. Perhaps the 'shared with Deripaska' part is disputed? But I don't even think that is.. again, what specific corroboration are you looking for? Is your contention that Trump's campaign manager, who was twice convicted of laundering tens of millions of dollars for a Russian billionaire, and who admitted to providing confidential campaign information to that same billionaire via a cutout, needs to be convicted of some specific crime related to that before we believe all of their admissions? Read the Mueller report! Or the Senate report! They are very detailed and highlight exactly where they have unanswered questions. None of their questions involve Manafort's behavior or intentions.
      - thakoppno 4y ago
        To boil it down as much as possible, I’m not persuaded Trump (or anyone else) conspired with Russia to win the presidency. The prosecution of Gates and Manafort would not have proceeded had the election swung the other way. In totality it seems to me the Special Council investigation was a political hatchet job more than anything resembling a pursuit of justice. For whatever it’s worth, I do not support Trump but feel compelled to note perceived injustices when observed.