4 ms·

But where are these drugs coming from? Why isn't the source cut off or stopped? Hint: lack of policing.

annoyingnoob 4y ago
The last 50 years of history does not agree with you. https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig... https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c... https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of- https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of-...
- HervalFreire 4y ago
  There are examples where policing does work. See Japan and Singapore. Also note those two places have the lowest incidence of drug use and homelessness. It could be because of the viciousness of the punishment. In the US the punishment matches the degree of the crime in the sense that if you sell drugs you get a punishment that you deserve. In Singapore if you get caught selling over 500mg of weed you are executed via death penalty. The punishment does not match the crime, but rather the punishment is designed to be as effective as possible in eliminating the crime all together via deterrence and Darwinian artificial selection. Policing DOES work, it's just most people, you included, are drug users. So you want to end homelessness, you want to stop people from over-abusing drugs, but as a casual user yourself you don't want to be put to death either or anything like that so you have to find some middle ground that works. The problem is there is no middle ground. The US drug war was middle ground and as you and your articles pointed out, it was largely NOT effective. From a personal standpoint I don't use drugs. Morally I'm more of a middle ground type of a person. I think moderation isn't a big deal. Objectively though, since I have no skin in the game, I would support Singaporean measures to stop drugs and homelessness all together.
  - annoyingnoob 4y ago
    Say your grandma falls and breaks her hip. AS part of her recovery she is given opioids to help with pain. Grandma accidentally becomes addicted to opioids but can no longer get a prescription. Grandma, in a fit of addiction, gets her Grandson to help get her some pills. They both get busted. Would you put your Grandma to death? Grandma needs help not a lethal injection.
    - HervalFreire 4y ago
      Great question. The grandma in Singapore is immediately put under a detoxification program. If she's near end of life she may be placed under legal pain management. Such details are outlined here: NATIONAL GUIDELINES FOR THE SAFE PRESCRIBING OF OPIOIDS 2021 https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-document-library/national-guidelines-for-the-safe-prescribing-of-opioids-2021.pdf https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-docum... If grandma decides to purchase opioids illegally rather then get treatment that's 10 years in prison in Singapore. The law is effective in this case of making grandma pursue the correct treatment. This is not all. Executions will occur: namely the parties responsible for the opioid epidemic will be put to death without regard to corporate shielding. Courts will determine on an individual basis who was responsible and hang them. I believe this last point is something I wish would happen and would largely be an effective deterrent. It is entirely a matter of how much power a DA will have in pursuing such "policing" policies. The former point however is true and is the outlined procedure enforced by the government in Singapore. Either way even without the last point I think I have shown you that "policing" can be effective. It really depends on how much policing and how severe it is. There is the obvious side effect of possibly creating a police state by giving the police/government too much power. But while the phrase "police state" has bad connotations it is arguably not always a bad thing as exemplified by Singapore. I don't know whether such policies will be effective in the states. But it is patently false to say that policing cannot be effective. It is easy for a person to hold loyalty to an idealized concept that "policing" doesn't work when it comes to drugs. The reality is, like almost everything in life, much more nuanced. Ask questions. What kind of policing? How severe? Being open minded means that you need to ask those questions rather then deliberately constructing logical scaffolding to support your preconceived/popular conclusion about the US drug war.

The last 50 years of history does not agree with you. https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig... https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c... https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of- https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of-...

HervalFreire 4y ago
There are examples where policing does work. See Japan and Singapore. Also note those two places have the lowest incidence of drug use and homelessness. It could be because of the viciousness of the punishment. In the US the punishment matches the degree of the crime in the sense that if you sell drugs you get a punishment that you deserve. In Singapore if you get caught selling over 500mg of weed you are executed via death penalty. The punishment does not match the crime, but rather the punishment is designed to be as effective as possible in eliminating the crime all together via deterrence and Darwinian artificial selection. Policing DOES work, it's just most people, you included, are drug users. So you want to end homelessness, you want to stop people from over-abusing drugs, but as a casual user yourself you don't want to be put to death either or anything like that so you have to find some middle ground that works. The problem is there is no middle ground. The US drug war was middle ground and as you and your articles pointed out, it was largely NOT effective. From a personal standpoint I don't use drugs. Morally I'm more of a middle ground type of a person. I think moderation isn't a big deal. Objectively though, since I have no skin in the game, I would support Singaporean measures to stop drugs and homelessness all together.
- annoyingnoob 4y ago
  Say your grandma falls and breaks her hip. AS part of her recovery she is given opioids to help with pain. Grandma accidentally becomes addicted to opioids but can no longer get a prescription. Grandma, in a fit of addiction, gets her Grandson to help get her some pills. They both get busted. Would you put your Grandma to death? Grandma needs help not a lethal injection.
  - HervalFreire 4y ago
    Great question. The grandma in Singapore is immediately put under a detoxification program. If she's near end of life she may be placed under legal pain management. Such details are outlined here: NATIONAL GUIDELINES FOR THE SAFE PRESCRIBING OF OPIOIDS 2021 https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-document-library/national-guidelines-for-the-safe-prescribing-of-opioids-2021.pdf https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-docum... If grandma decides to purchase opioids illegally rather then get treatment that's 10 years in prison in Singapore. The law is effective in this case of making grandma pursue the correct treatment. This is not all. Executions will occur: namely the parties responsible for the opioid epidemic will be put to death without regard to corporate shielding. Courts will determine on an individual basis who was responsible and hang them. I believe this last point is something I wish would happen and would largely be an effective deterrent. It is entirely a matter of how much power a DA will have in pursuing such "policing" policies. The former point however is true and is the outlined procedure enforced by the government in Singapore. Either way even without the last point I think I have shown you that "policing" can be effective. It really depends on how much policing and how severe it is. There is the obvious side effect of possibly creating a police state by giving the police/government too much power. But while the phrase "police state" has bad connotations it is arguably not always a bad thing as exemplified by Singapore. I don't know whether such policies will be effective in the states. But it is patently false to say that policing cannot be effective. It is easy for a person to hold loyalty to an idealized concept that "policing" doesn't work when it comes to drugs. The reality is, like almost everything in life, much more nuanced. Ask questions. What kind of policing? How severe? Being open minded means that you need to ask those questions rather then deliberately constructing logical scaffolding to support your preconceived/popular conclusion about the US drug war.