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The difficulty with this kind of retaliation is that it's more obviously only "harming" your own citizens. When a govt imposes trade tarriffs, it's effectively

The difficulty with this kind of retaliation is that it's more obviously only "harming" your own citizens. When a govt imposes trade tarriffs, it's effectively taxing it's own citizens to disincentivize them from purchasing those goods, steering towards others. When a govt imposes bans, it's preventing it's own citizens from using a service. Yes there's an economic angle to the supplier of the service, but this isn't a financial transaction where a person would vote with their wallet to use the cheaper alternative. This is the attention economy, people want to use the platforms they enjoy using, because they're all free anyway.

miguelazo 4y ago
>When a govt imposes trade tarriffs, it's effectively taxing it's own citizens The Econ 101 way to look at it. In the real world, it also promotes domestic production, creating jobs and often helping "nascent industries", and in many cases ultimately leading to even lower prices over the long term as domestic industry matures. This is how basically every advanced economy industrialized. See the work of South Korean economist, Ha-Joon Chang. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1032019.Bad_Samaritans https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1032019.Bad_Samaritans >people want to use the platforms they enjoy using, because they're all free anyway Agree with the first part, but one's attention is hardly "free". It is, in fact, the ultimate opportunity cost when squandered on these services.
bsder 4y ago
> The difficulty with this kind of retaliation is that it's more obviously only "harming" your own citizens. Is it? Maybe in the short term (and I'm not even convinced of that) but in the long term? In the long term, I don't want the US to fund China. Period. You can pick your reasons from a smorgasboard: human rights abuses to basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies. We tried engagement--it's time to admit it failed. TikTok being banned should just be one of the things that occur. Manufacturing should get pulled from China. Anything shipped from the China to the US should have a tariff on it. etc. The first best time to act should have been before we outsourced everything. The second best time to act is now.
- miguelazo 4y ago
  > human rights abuses to basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies Were you talking about the US here, or China?
  - bsder 4y ago
    Only one of those countries won't throw you in jail or decrease your social credit for posting said violations. So, answer your own question. "Both sides are the same" is mentally equivalent to a 4 year old saying "But he did it, too!" and deserves the same consideration.
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      You are attempting to equivocate pointing out the very obvious fact that both countries are oppressive in different ways as “both sides are the same.” Seeing the world in black and white and falling for every jingoistic corporate (security state-serving) media narrative about China is the actual juvenile worldview.
      - bsder 4y ago
        I am giving your comments the consideration they deserve.
        miguelazo 4y ago
        > 1. human rights abuses to 2. basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies 1. US has the world's highest incarceration rate, with minority populations extremely overrepresented. 2. The US subsidizes its agricultural products to an extreme degree, but forces poor countries like Mexico to drop subsidies that were integral to its food security and economy. You were saying?

miguelazo 4y ago

>When a govt imposes trade tarriffs, it's effectively taxing it's own citizens The Econ 101 way to look at it. In the real world, it also promotes domestic production, creating jobs and often helping "nascent industries", and in many cases ultimately leading to even lower prices over the long term as domestic industry matures. This is how basically every advanced economy industrialized. See the work of South Korean economist, Ha-Joon Chang. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1032019.Bad_Samaritans https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1032019.Bad_Samaritans >people want to use the platforms they enjoy using, because they're all free anyway Agree with the first part, but one's attention is hardly "free". It is, in fact, the ultimate opportunity cost when squandered on these services.

bsder 4y ago

> The difficulty with this kind of retaliation is that it's more obviously only "harming" your own citizens. Is it? Maybe in the short term (and I'm not even convinced of that) but in the long term? In the long term, I don't want the US to fund China. Period. You can pick your reasons from a smorgasboard: human rights abuses to basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies. We tried engagement--it's time to admit it failed. TikTok being banned should just be one of the things that occur. Manufacturing should get pulled from China. Anything shipped from the China to the US should have a tariff on it. etc. The first best time to act should have been before we outsourced everything. The second best time to act is now.

miguelazo 4y ago
> human rights abuses to basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies Were you talking about the US here, or China?
- bsder 4y ago
  Only one of those countries won't throw you in jail or decrease your social credit for posting said violations. So, answer your own question. "Both sides are the same" is mentally equivalent to a 4 year old saying "But he did it, too!" and deserves the same consideration.
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    You are attempting to equivocate pointing out the very obvious fact that both countries are oppressive in different ways as “both sides are the same.” Seeing the world in black and white and falling for every jingoistic corporate (security state-serving) media narrative about China is the actual juvenile worldview.
    - bsder 4y ago
      I am giving your comments the consideration they deserve.
      - miguelazo 4y ago
        > 1. human rights abuses to 2. basic reciprocal market fairness to government subsidization of companies 1. US has the world's highest incarceration rate, with minority populations extremely overrepresented. 2. The US subsidizes its agricultural products to an extreme degree, but forces poor countries like Mexico to drop subsidies that were integral to its food security and economy. You were saying?