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I'm not sure banning semi-automatic weapons is an effective way to stop mass shootings. California has one of the most restrictive semi-automatic weapon bans in

I'm not sure banning semi-automatic weapons is an effective way to stop mass shootings. California has one of the most restrictive semi-automatic weapon bans in the country and it has one of the higher rates of mass shootings. That seems to be pretty good evidence that this policy is restricting people who care about the law from possessing these weapons and not the people actually committing the crimes.

vkou 4y ago
California's surrounded by 49 other states, most of which have no such restrictions, and does not have any border controls with any of them. The formula of access changes substantially when you don't have opportunities for jurisdictional arbitrage. Criminals don't sit in a pentagram and magick weapons up out of thin air, they source them (legally and otherwise) from legitimate owners. A few of them are also legitimate owners, who choose to use them for crime.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  It would seem, then, that those surrounding states should have even higher per-capita mass shooting rates than California, given they have a higher concentration of those sorts of weapons. They don't. In fact the states surrounding California are substantially lower. It seems apparent that this strategy is both misguided and ineffective.
  - vkou 4y ago
    You played a sleight-of-hand, by conflating mass shootings with gun homicides in general. I'm talking about both, with a bigger emphasis on homicides overall. California is #44 for gun homicide rates, and is significantly lower both on this metric, and on gun ownership than than its immediate neighbours. Speaking of firearm homicide rates, #1, #2, and #3 are Mississippi, Wyoming, and Louisiana, [1] all of which have gun ownership rates that are double-to-triple that of Cali. 'Immediate neighbour' isn't a relevant term to this. There are no border checkpoints anywhere between the lower 48. Practically speaking, access to firearms is set by the availability of firearms in the most permissible state. Illegal guns don't appear into existence on their own, they start life as legally purchased guns, that are then sold to criminals, or are stolen by them. This is especially prevalent on the East Coast, where 3/4 guns used in New Jersey and New York crimes come from out of state. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/...
    - idiotsecant 4y ago
      I'm not the one playing sleight of hand here, this whole comment chain is talking about mass shootings. You're moving the goalposts to a subject nobody but you is talking about.
TylerE 4y ago
If you really want to do something good, don't ban semi-autos, or long guns at all. Make it way harder to get a pistol. That's what's used in the vast majority of murders. Those two mass shootings in California earlier this year? Both pistols. I also think that concealed carry should generally be banned for most civilians, and open carry legal. My views on guns tend to generally annoy both sides...
- RajT88 4y ago
  I won't go so far as to say I'm on your side, but it's a valid way of looking at the issue. It's the statistical approach - target the biggest part of the problem. IIRC handguns are used in 75% of firearm deaths from all causes (homicide, suicide, accidents).
  - nullc 4y ago
    > IIRC handguns are used in 75% of firearm deaths from all causes (homicide, suicide, accidents). kind of a distorted figure there because suicide dominates by a wide margin, and gun availablity doesn't change the suicide rate. e.g. when controlling for latitude you get similar suicide rates in places without guns, people just use different means.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Guns have by far the highest success rate.
      - nullc 4y ago
        Yet the suicide rate in the US and UK-- where there is more or less zero access to guns-- are essentially the same, especially after correcting for age and latitude.
    - RajT88 4y ago
      It's not that wide of a margin, and different aggregations (geographic region, year, etc.) see a more even 50/50ish split; https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-da...

vkou 4y ago

California's surrounded by 49 other states, most of which have no such restrictions, and does not have any border controls with any of them. The formula of access changes substantially when you don't have opportunities for jurisdictional arbitrage. Criminals don't sit in a pentagram and magick weapons up out of thin air, they source them (legally and otherwise) from legitimate owners. A few of them are also legitimate owners, who choose to use them for crime.

idiotsecant 4y ago
It would seem, then, that those surrounding states should have even higher per-capita mass shooting rates than California, given they have a higher concentration of those sorts of weapons. They don't. In fact the states surrounding California are substantially lower. It seems apparent that this strategy is both misguided and ineffective.
- vkou 4y ago
  You played a sleight-of-hand, by conflating mass shootings with gun homicides in general. I'm talking about both, with a bigger emphasis on homicides overall. California is #44 for gun homicide rates, and is significantly lower both on this metric, and on gun ownership than than its immediate neighbours. Speaking of firearm homicide rates, #1, #2, and #3 are Mississippi, Wyoming, and Louisiana, [1] all of which have gun ownership rates that are double-to-triple that of Cali. 'Immediate neighbour' isn't a relevant term to this. There are no border checkpoints anywhere between the lower 48. Practically speaking, access to firearms is set by the availability of firearms in the most permissible state. Illegal guns don't appear into existence on their own, they start life as legally purchased guns, that are then sold to criminals, or are stolen by them. This is especially prevalent on the East Coast, where 3/4 guns used in New Jersey and New York crimes come from out of state. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/...
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    I'm not the one playing sleight of hand here, this whole comment chain is talking about mass shootings. You're moving the goalposts to a subject nobody but you is talking about.

TylerE 4y ago

If you really want to do something good, don't ban semi-autos, or long guns at all. Make it way harder to get a pistol. That's what's used in the vast majority of murders. Those two mass shootings in California earlier this year? Both pistols. I also think that concealed carry should generally be banned for most civilians, and open carry legal. My views on guns tend to generally annoy both sides...

RajT88 4y ago
I won't go so far as to say I'm on your side, but it's a valid way of looking at the issue. It's the statistical approach - target the biggest part of the problem. IIRC handguns are used in 75% of firearm deaths from all causes (homicide, suicide, accidents).
- nullc 4y ago
  > IIRC handguns are used in 75% of firearm deaths from all causes (homicide, suicide, accidents). kind of a distorted figure there because suicide dominates by a wide margin, and gun availablity doesn't change the suicide rate. e.g. when controlling for latitude you get similar suicide rates in places without guns, people just use different means.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Guns have by far the highest success rate.
    - nullc 4y ago
      Yet the suicide rate in the US and UK-- where there is more or less zero access to guns-- are essentially the same, especially after correcting for age and latitude.
  - RajT88 4y ago
    It's not that wide of a margin, and different aggregations (geographic region, year, etc.) see a more even 50/50ish split; https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-da...