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Overwork? Toxic teams? Project managers running teams? I've been at Google for a very long time, in quite a few orgs, and none of those things ring any bells

by aix1 4y ago

Overwork? Toxic teams? Project managers running teams? I've been at Google for a very long time, in quite a few orgs, and none of those things ring any bells. (Some probably exist in some pockets, though the last one sounds particularly implausible. It's just not how Google job ladders and the management structure work.) Now, I have to admit to having not read the article, but the headline does resonate. I've spoken to a lot of current Googlers about this, and their attitude towards the company has definitely changed rather dramatically, almost overnight. People in non-US jurisdictions are feeling this particularly acutely, due to how the layoffs have been playing out for them.

Shish2k 4y ago
I’ve been at Meta for a few years and would say similar - I’m pretty sure that at any company with tens or hundreds of thousands of employees, you are going to get some horror stories - but in general it used to be an amazing place to work (ranked #1 on glassdoor for several years for good reason), but now… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- sawyna 4y ago
  I currently work at Google and my take is that it really depends on the team. If an IC is toxic, the effect of it isn't terrible. If a manager is, the effect spreads and if a manager of managers is toxic, that's a recipe for disaster and so on. I personally am in a situation where nasty politics are being played out just for the sake of getting promoted. It's fine to focus on your promo, but not at the cost of your colleagues or the environment. That being said, the broader google ecosystem and culture holds on a macro level. It really is the people that work there who define and uphold it. A couple of rogue high level folks are enough to destroy it.
super256 4y ago
> Overwork? I don't know anyone working at Google, nor anyone who worked at Google in the past (except a single intern). Hell, I don't even live anywhere near a Google campus! But I always assumed that Google wants you to spend your whole day there, from morning until evening. Because big tech is usually implicitly aiming at that. - Serve three major meals a day, + you can bring your dog to your office, which eliminates any reason to go home (especially for those who don't have a house or spouse to take care of). - Shuttle bus, where many employees have like, idk, 40min of free time? Why not just start working on the laptop already? - Food servings are stretched out. Breakfast is till 10AM; dinner is served at 6:30PM, so if you started at 8:30AM, you need to stay another 1.5h to make use of dinner. Why not work in the meantime? And some classical fear stuff which makes you want to work hard and long hours: - Aggressive deadlines - Get the promotion in 2 years or get fired I dunno, I probably wouldn't mind working under these conditions, but I think there are reasons why the average tenure of a Googler is 1.5 years.
- jchw 4y ago
  I worked at Google for three years. It was a great experience and I mainly left because I had grown accustomed to remote work and was planning on moving back to live closer to family after having a falling out with the bay area. I do get the impression that people have had vastly differing experiences at Google, but the culture was very laid back. Deadline pressure existed, but ultimately it never felt that bad: if we weren't going to hit it, we weren't going to hit it. It happened. >Get the promotion in 2 years or get fired I don't think this is true. I'm pretty sure once you're L4 or so you can pretty much coast. I heard a similar thing when I was at Google, but knew of many counter examples within my circle of coworkers.
  - super256 4y ago
    First: Thank you for sharing your experience! But I have one question, I'd be glad to get some clarification. > I'm pretty sure once you're L4 or so you can pretty much coast. I heard a similar thing when I was at Google, but knew of many counter examples within my circle of coworkers. Do you mean that there are employees who were below L4 and have not been promoted in the past two years? Or do you mean that you know employees, who are L4, but haven't promoted to L5 in the past two years? In general, it seems (judging from HN comments) like L4 is the minimum growth expectation.
    - jchw 4y ago
      I am not sure if it is ladder-dependent but yes, you can stay at L3 for longer without getting fired. Not sure if there's actually a set limit anywhere, and I suspect it's more of a rule of thumb.
- mathattack 4y ago
  Part of the reason the average tenure is so short is companies usually quote Median, and that’s low by definition in high growth companies. If you double your headcount in 2 years, your median will be less than 2 years even if nobody quits.
- munificent 4y ago
tdeck 4y ago
Did you hear about "megablocks"? They ran the shuttles and cafes on the weekends and "encouraged" engineers to work through the weekend until that project was done. I wasn't in that org and joined Google a bit after the project concluded, but it had an infamous reputation that stuck around.
- aix1 4y ago
  No, never heard of "megablocks".
  - tdeck 4y ago
    It might actually have been spelled "megablox"; it's been too long.

by aix1 4y ago

Shish2k 4y ago

I’ve been at Meta for a few years and would say similar - I’m pretty sure that at any company with tens or hundreds of thousands of employees, you are going to get some horror stories - but in general it used to be an amazing place to work (ranked #1 on glassdoor for several years for good reason), but now… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sawyna 4y ago
I currently work at Google and my take is that it really depends on the team. If an IC is toxic, the effect of it isn't terrible. If a manager is, the effect spreads and if a manager of managers is toxic, that's a recipe for disaster and so on. I personally am in a situation where nasty politics are being played out just for the sake of getting promoted. It's fine to focus on your promo, but not at the cost of your colleagues or the environment. That being said, the broader google ecosystem and culture holds on a macro level. It really is the people that work there who define and uphold it. A couple of rogue high level folks are enough to destroy it.

super256 4y ago

> Overwork? I don't know anyone working at Google, nor anyone who worked at Google in the past (except a single intern). Hell, I don't even live anywhere near a Google campus! But I always assumed that Google wants you to spend your whole day there, from morning until evening. Because big tech is usually implicitly aiming at that. - Serve three major meals a day, + you can bring your dog to your office, which eliminates any reason to go home (especially for those who don't have a house or spouse to take care of). - Shuttle bus, where many employees have like, idk, 40min of free time? Why not just start working on the laptop already? - Food servings are stretched out. Breakfast is till 10AM; dinner is served at 6:30PM, so if you started at 8:30AM, you need to stay another 1.5h to make use of dinner. Why not work in the meantime? And some classical fear stuff which makes you want to work hard and long hours: - Aggressive deadlines - Get the promotion in 2 years or get fired I dunno, I probably wouldn't mind working under these conditions, but I think there are reasons why the average tenure of a Googler is 1.5 years.

jchw 4y ago
I worked at Google for three years. It was a great experience and I mainly left because I had grown accustomed to remote work and was planning on moving back to live closer to family after having a falling out with the bay area. I do get the impression that people have had vastly differing experiences at Google, but the culture was very laid back. Deadline pressure existed, but ultimately it never felt that bad: if we weren't going to hit it, we weren't going to hit it. It happened. >Get the promotion in 2 years or get fired I don't think this is true. I'm pretty sure once you're L4 or so you can pretty much coast. I heard a similar thing when I was at Google, but knew of many counter examples within my circle of coworkers.
- super256 4y ago
  First: Thank you for sharing your experience! But I have one question, I'd be glad to get some clarification. > I'm pretty sure once you're L4 or so you can pretty much coast. I heard a similar thing when I was at Google, but knew of many counter examples within my circle of coworkers. Do you mean that there are employees who were below L4 and have not been promoted in the past two years? Or do you mean that you know employees, who are L4, but haven't promoted to L5 in the past two years? In general, it seems (judging from HN comments) like L4 is the minimum growth expectation.
  - jchw 4y ago
    I am not sure if it is ladder-dependent but yes, you can stay at L3 for longer without getting fired. Not sure if there's actually a set limit anywhere, and I suspect it's more of a rule of thumb.
mathattack 4y ago
Part of the reason the average tenure is so short is companies usually quote Median, and that’s low by definition in high growth companies. If you double your headcount in 2 years, your median will be less than 2 years even if nobody quits.
munificent 4y ago

tdeck 4y ago

Did you hear about "megablocks"? They ran the shuttles and cafes on the weekends and "encouraged" engineers to work through the weekend until that project was done. I wasn't in that org and joined Google a bit after the project concluded, but it had an infamous reputation that stuck around.

aix1 4y ago
No, never heard of "megablocks".
- tdeck 4y ago
  It might actually have been spelled "megablox"; it's been too long.