4 ms·

The New Super Commute

29 points by lxm 4y ago

nerdchum 4y ago
This cost of living differential between the west coast and the rest of America is getting ridiculous. If you can leverage the overpriced west coast but live in low COL area somewhere else, good for you.
- aroundtown 4y ago
  I wouldn't consider Austin low COL.
  - nerdchum 4y ago
    I wouldn't move to Austin just in general. I would look at Louisville, Kentucky or Charleston or Baltimore or some other area.
- shuckles 4y ago
  The cost difference, if anything, has narrowed since the start of the pandemic.
  - lastofthemojito 4y ago
    That's what I've seen anecdotally too. Not on the west coast, but in a major metro area on the east coast that has traditionally been seen as "expensive". I'd occasionally get sucked down Zillow rabbit-holes where I'd look at cheaper areas in the middle of the country and daydream about the palace I could buy for the price of my modest house here. But these days, the enormous differential doesn't seem to be there. I certainly won't say the middle America prices have caught the coasts, but they've grown at higher rates so that the difference isn't what it used to be.
snitzr 4y ago
A major benefit of working from home is less pollution. A super commute would be regressive.
mo_42 4y ago
Obviously this behavior is an improvement for the individuals. I don’t see that it’s an improvement overall. Long distance commutes are in conflict to climate goals (especially flights). Also, these super commuters disturb the local economy with their purchasing power (there was an article recently on HN about a US family living in Portugal because it’s so cheap there). I guess governments will have to address this somehow.
- lastofthemojito 4y ago
  I've been thinking more and more about this concept where people, how you put it: "disturb the local economy with their purchasing power". My grandparents lived a couple of miles from the city where Grandpa worked, but then when he retired they moved maybe 30 miles out where things were cheaper. I knew other folks whose parents or grandparents retired to Florida to take advantage of a lower cost-of-living and no income tax. That's just what people did - why pay a premium to live near the jobs if you aren't working? More recently I've read complaints about folks from richer areas (often California) moving to cheaper areas, driving up the cost of living, straining local services, etc. Some of them are retirees, although remote work has added to the issue, leading to "go back to California" sentiment in Portland, Boise, etc. I've heard similar stories about expats driving up rents in Mexico City and Portugal, making those areas unaffordable for locals. So I've got a healthy 401(k) balance and will be retiring one of these days. What are the rules for where I can retire if I want to move somewhere my dollars will go further? Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way? Does it depend on the degree, like it'd be fine if I move to a nearby suburb that is 10% cheaper but not if I move to Thailand? Does it depend on economic conditions in an area, like how many existing residents are being priced out?
  - sebzim4500 4y ago
    > Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way I think it is only a few terminally online people that object to this. In real life locals object to people coming in and buying second homes or renting out airbnbs, not new people moving into the area permanently.
graupel 4y ago
https://archive.is/fDwwP https://archive.is/fDwwP
ElfinTrousers 4y ago
Buried lede: this is less common now than it used to be. Will it become more common? "Maybe", says one professor of economics. So maybe. Or maybe not.
- unregistereddev 4y ago
  Agreed. I knew someone who chased high-paying contract positions around the country. His wife managed the house at their midwest home base, while he rented a cheap apartment wherever he was working and flew home every weekend. That was well before the pandemic made remote work common. This arrangement doesn't work for every couple. I doubt whether it will ever become common, but who knows whether it will become more so.
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    I don't see how it ever _could_ become common, just from the sheer amount of time and energy it takes to move one single person around this much--no way that can scale.
aroundtown 4y ago
These seemed like a humble brag by upper class jet-setters who get to crow about the "commute" and sacrifices they are making while patting themselves on the back for saving a buck.
neilmovva 4y ago
> moves to Austin because it is less “vulnerable to climate change” > commutes by plane hmmm
- jaqalopes 4y ago
  I was cackling at this part. How could anyone in Texas say that with a straight face after the big ice storm two years ago? The climate is changing everywhere. The idea that you can move away from the climate is simply deluded.
  - ghodith 4y ago
    It's not necessarily getting worse everywhere, which I would guess is the point.
    - schaefer 4y ago
      > It's not necessarily getting worse everywhere Among the many issues with this statement: It takes food security for granted.
  - erellsworth 4y ago
    I'll just move outside the environment. https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    The difference is presumably between more extreme weather and becoming submerged.
- rob74 4y ago
  My thoughts exactly: >“By the time I get to bed it’s going to be close to a 24-hour day,” says Frank Croasdale of some of the crazier days he commutes to his physical-therapy practice in Redondo Beach, Calif., from his home in Austin, Texas. Still, the arrangement “is a win-win.” ..."except for the environment of course", I was thinking when reading that.
- 4y ago
jamesgill 4y ago
It's not very new, though maybe more common. Around 2001, the dotcom startup I worked for was bought by a Bay Area company, and I commuted weekly from Portland to San Jose for a year on what we called the 'nerd bird'. There were a lot of us in those days, working for many different companies. I remember I found a way to get cheap first class upgrades, since I hated flying and could get a stiff drink or two before takeoff.
ttpphd 4y ago
Money makes people do strange things.
joncrane 4y ago
I think the final example is an important piece. Ms Fry, the Morgan Stanley exec, realizes that her position is tenuous, in that it would be nigh on impossible to replace her current gig money-wise while living in Indiana. I think a lot of people have made adjustments based on an assumption of stability in employment. I think employers are fine with this because it gives the employer more leverage in the relationship.
causi 4y ago
He and his family moved to Austin in 2021 from Southern California, eager to live somewhere slightly less expensive and vulnerable to climate change, he says. I know the article isn't about this, but seriously? Move into a place that has a snowpocalypse every year because it won't winterize its grid and almost certainly won't take steps to mitigate any future climate problems? If you're worried about climate change I can't think of a worse place to move to short of a barrier island or on top of a glacier.
- leetharris 4y ago
  We had Snowpocalypse once, please stop exaggerating.
  - khrbrt 4y ago
    Maybe it wasn't as bad as last year, but it snowed in Dallas last month and still shut down the city for a week.
    - wyldfire 4y ago
      The "snowpocalypse" does not refer to disruptive snowfall that interrupted local transportation. It refers to the impact on power generation that caused blackouts that extended for ~5+ days and killed hundreds [1,2]. [1] https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/energy-environment/2021/05/27/399291/texas-winter-storm-death-toll-could-be-much-higher-than-the-states-count-buzzfeed-data-review-found/ https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/energy-envi... [2] https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/02/texas-winter-storm-final-death-toll-246/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/02/texas-winter-storm-f...
      - Kirby64 4y ago
        To be clear, the latest ice storm in Austin was close to one of the worst ice storms on record (exceeding the 'snowpocalypse' reference, at least locally, in amount of ice by more than double). This caused local power outages for many days, for many people, while it was ~30 degrees outside. Not quite as long as the 2021 event, and not quite as brutally cold, but it was definitely flashbacks for many folks. In some respects, it was worse locally, as it caused a significantly higher amount of downed trees, and, as a result, much more damaged infrastructure (there were MANY videos posted of transformers exploding thanks to downed lines/downed trees). What it didn't damage/affect (compared to 2021), was the power generation aspect. So, if your lines were fine, you had power, unlike 2021.
satvikpendem 4y ago
Wasn't it PG who said to look out for disruptive forces in your startup that are not commonly thought of to be in the same industry, that the disruption of planes for business meetings might just be Zoom and remote work instead? Given that, I wonder why these people are super commuting at all.
rr808 4y ago
The WFH trend hasn't been environmentally friendly afaics. I work with a bunch of people that used to live in small houses close to the office, now have big houses out in suburbs or resort towns, then do a bigger commute the few days a week they do go to the office. Family used to walk and take public transport now they have 2+ cars.
mlinksva 4y ago
If we don't want this need to decrease cost of housing in high productivity areas, increase cost of travel.

29 points by lxm 4y ago

This cost of living differential between the west coast and the rest of America is getting ridiculous. If you can leverage the overpriced west coast but live in low COL area somewhere else, good for you.

aroundtown 4y ago
I wouldn't consider Austin low COL.
- nerdchum 4y ago
  I wouldn't move to Austin just in general. I would look at Louisville, Kentucky or Charleston or Baltimore or some other area.
shuckles 4y ago
The cost difference, if anything, has narrowed since the start of the pandemic.
- lastofthemojito 4y ago
  That's what I've seen anecdotally too. Not on the west coast, but in a major metro area on the east coast that has traditionally been seen as "expensive". I'd occasionally get sucked down Zillow rabbit-holes where I'd look at cheaper areas in the middle of the country and daydream about the palace I could buy for the price of my modest house here. But these days, the enormous differential doesn't seem to be there. I certainly won't say the middle America prices have caught the coasts, but they've grown at higher rates so that the difference isn't what it used to be.

snitzr 4y ago

A major benefit of working from home is less pollution. A super commute would be regressive.

mo_42 4y ago

Obviously this behavior is an improvement for the individuals. I don’t see that it’s an improvement overall. Long distance commutes are in conflict to climate goals (especially flights). Also, these super commuters disturb the local economy with their purchasing power (there was an article recently on HN about a US family living in Portugal because it’s so cheap there). I guess governments will have to address this somehow.

lastofthemojito 4y ago
I've been thinking more and more about this concept where people, how you put it: "disturb the local economy with their purchasing power". My grandparents lived a couple of miles from the city where Grandpa worked, but then when he retired they moved maybe 30 miles out where things were cheaper. I knew other folks whose parents or grandparents retired to Florida to take advantage of a lower cost-of-living and no income tax. That's just what people did - why pay a premium to live near the jobs if you aren't working? More recently I've read complaints about folks from richer areas (often California) moving to cheaper areas, driving up the cost of living, straining local services, etc. Some of them are retirees, although remote work has added to the issue, leading to "go back to California" sentiment in Portland, Boise, etc. I've heard similar stories about expats driving up rents in Mexico City and Portugal, making those areas unaffordable for locals. So I've got a healthy 401(k) balance and will be retiring one of these days. What are the rules for where I can retire if I want to move somewhere my dollars will go further? Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way? Does it depend on the degree, like it'd be fine if I move to a nearby suburb that is 10% cheaper but not if I move to Thailand? Does it depend on economic conditions in an area, like how many existing residents are being priced out?
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  > Is it still thought of as OK at all to exploit another area's lower cost-of-living in this way I think it is only a few terminally online people that object to this. In real life locals object to people coming in and buying second homes or renting out airbnbs, not new people moving into the area permanently.

graupel 4y ago

https://archive.is/fDwwP https://archive.is/fDwwP

ElfinTrousers 4y ago

Buried lede: this is less common now than it used to be. Will it become more common? "Maybe", says one professor of economics. So maybe. Or maybe not.

unregistereddev 4y ago
Agreed. I knew someone who chased high-paying contract positions around the country. His wife managed the house at their midwest home base, while he rented a cheap apartment wherever he was working and flew home every weekend. That was well before the pandemic made remote work common. This arrangement doesn't work for every couple. I doubt whether it will ever become common, but who knows whether it will become more so.
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  I don't see how it ever _could_ become common, just from the sheer amount of time and energy it takes to move one single person around this much--no way that can scale.

aroundtown 4y ago

These seemed like a humble brag by upper class jet-setters who get to crow about the "commute" and sacrifices they are making while patting themselves on the back for saving a buck.

neilmovva 4y ago

> moves to Austin because it is less “vulnerable to climate change” > commutes by plane hmmm

jaqalopes 4y ago
I was cackling at this part. How could anyone in Texas say that with a straight face after the big ice storm two years ago? The climate is changing everywhere. The idea that you can move away from the climate is simply deluded.
- ghodith 4y ago
  It's not necessarily getting worse everywhere, which I would guess is the point.
  - schaefer 4y ago
    > It's not necessarily getting worse everywhere Among the many issues with this statement: It takes food security for granted.
- erellsworth 4y ago
  I'll just move outside the environment. https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  The difference is presumably between more extreme weather and becoming submerged.
rob74 4y ago
My thoughts exactly: >“By the time I get to bed it’s going to be close to a 24-hour day,” says Frank Croasdale of some of the crazier days he commutes to his physical-therapy practice in Redondo Beach, Calif., from his home in Austin, Texas. Still, the arrangement “is a win-win.” ..."except for the environment of course", I was thinking when reading that.
4y ago

jamesgill 4y ago

It's not very new, though maybe more common. Around 2001, the dotcom startup I worked for was bought by a Bay Area company, and I commuted weekly from Portland to San Jose for a year on what we called the 'nerd bird'. There were a lot of us in those days, working for many different companies. I remember I found a way to get cheap first class upgrades, since I hated flying and could get a stiff drink or two before takeoff.

ttpphd 4y ago

Money makes people do strange things.

joncrane 4y ago

I think the final example is an important piece. Ms Fry, the Morgan Stanley exec, realizes that her position is tenuous, in that it would be nigh on impossible to replace her current gig money-wise while living in Indiana. I think a lot of people have made adjustments based on an assumption of stability in employment. I think employers are fine with this because it gives the employer more leverage in the relationship.

causi 4y ago

He and his family moved to Austin in 2021 from Southern California, eager to live somewhere slightly less expensive and vulnerable to climate change, he says. I know the article isn't about this, but seriously? Move into a place that has a snowpocalypse every year because it won't winterize its grid and almost certainly won't take steps to mitigate any future climate problems? If you're worried about climate change I can't think of a worse place to move to short of a barrier island or on top of a glacier.

leetharris 4y ago
We had Snowpocalypse once, please stop exaggerating.
- khrbrt 4y ago
  Maybe it wasn't as bad as last year, but it snowed in Dallas last month and still shut down the city for a week.
  - wyldfire 4y ago
    The "snowpocalypse" does not refer to disruptive snowfall that interrupted local transportation. It refers to the impact on power generation that caused blackouts that extended for ~5+ days and killed hundreds [1,2]. [1] https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/energy-environment/2021/05/27/399291/texas-winter-storm-death-toll-could-be-much-higher-than-the-states-count-buzzfeed-data-review-found/ https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/energy-envi... [2] https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/02/texas-winter-storm-final-death-toll-246/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/02/texas-winter-storm-f...
    - Kirby64 4y ago
      To be clear, the latest ice storm in Austin was close to one of the worst ice storms on record (exceeding the 'snowpocalypse' reference, at least locally, in amount of ice by more than double). This caused local power outages for many days, for many people, while it was ~30 degrees outside. Not quite as long as the 2021 event, and not quite as brutally cold, but it was definitely flashbacks for many folks. In some respects, it was worse locally, as it caused a significantly higher amount of downed trees, and, as a result, much more damaged infrastructure (there were MANY videos posted of transformers exploding thanks to downed lines/downed trees). What it didn't damage/affect (compared to 2021), was the power generation aspect. So, if your lines were fine, you had power, unlike 2021.

satvikpendem 4y ago

Wasn't it PG who said to look out for disruptive forces in your startup that are not commonly thought of to be in the same industry, that the disruption of planes for business meetings might just be Zoom and remote work instead? Given that, I wonder why these people are super commuting at all.

rr808 4y ago

The WFH trend hasn't been environmentally friendly afaics. I work with a bunch of people that used to live in small houses close to the office, now have big houses out in suburbs or resort towns, then do a bigger commute the few days a week they do go to the office. Family used to walk and take public transport now they have 2+ cars.

mlinksva 4y ago

If we don't want this need to decrease cost of housing in high productivity areas, increase cost of travel.