3 ms·

Okay, let's explore this idea. Suppose you own a home, free and clear, no mortgage, no property taxes. Once a quarter, you receive a tax bill (calculated in w

by addaon 4y ago

Okay, let's explore this idea. Suppose you own a home, free and clear, no mortgage, no property taxes. Once a quarter, you receive a tax bill (calculated in whatever equitable way you prefer) to cover your share of the upkeep of our shared society. What action do you propose society take if you choose not to pay that bill? There's basically three routes here: 1) Take no action. The quarterly tax system becomes a voluntary system, and those who continue to choose to pay feel more and more bitter towards those who don't. 2) Debtors prison. You owe money to the government, and they are permitted and expected to imprison you until payment is made (which, if you were relying on income for that payment, might pose challenges). 3) Confiscating your real wealth. If you do not voluntarily pay your quarterly tax, the government can compel you to, by taking it in the form of assets you hold. Our current society has recognized (3) as the least bad option of the above. With your proposed movement to quarterly tax bills, but without a change in this overarching policy… the government will still take your house if you do not pay your taxes, even if those taxes are not "property" taxes and do not scale with the value of the property. What else can they take, in the end?

robomartin 4y ago
> Okay, let's explore this idea. You are missing an entire family of methods that would work quite well and not lead to the kinds of problems periodic billing would engender. Sales tax, VAT, etc. is one form of this. And then, of course, there's income tax. We have somehow lost control of the simple idea of the "village" getting together to pay for stuff by exploding into a system of thousands of different taxes nobody can keep track of. The end result is massive waste of resources, bad management, substandard results and large government organizations that are mostly incompetent at nearly everything they do. My street has been repaved twice in 25 years. They tell me they are planning on repaving it yet again next year. This street is 25 years old. It was as close to perfect as one could get when I moved in, months after the built it. It was just as perfect just before they repaved it (twice). It is perfect now. And yet, they are going to do it again. The financial waste on this one street alone is nothing less than vomit-inducing. They are doing this to keep unionized government-agency workers employed. Oh, yes, they tore-up and rebuilt our perfect sidewalks a few months ago. Absolutely and utterly unnecessary. While I do recognize the idea of sending people a bill for taxes isn't great, sometimes I wish we had that, maybe for a year or so. Why? People have no clue whatsoever about how much of their money is being consumed by hundreds, if not thousands, of taxes they encounter on a daily basis. It would be fantastic to see one lump-sum bill show-up every month. I guarantee you voting decision would change radically after just a few months of that. What they are doing to the population through this explosions in taxes should be criminal.
- addaon 4y ago
  > You are missing an entire family of methods that would work quite well and not lead to the kinds of problems periodic billing would engender. I am replying to your comment proposing periodic billing…
  - robomartin 4y ago
    I understand. There are many intelligent ways to handle it. A comment on HN isn't a full study of all available options and ideas along with comparisons of their effectiveness, consequences and probabilities of success. Besides, given the impossibility of property taxes ever going away, this is very much on the category of... https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/shoot-the-shit/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/shoot-the-shit/
    - addaon 4y ago
      But fundamentally you haven't shown that there's any method of taxation that eliminates the revocability of property. What's your proposed response to non-payment if not compelled payment / forfeiture of assets?

by addaon 4y ago

robomartin 4y ago

> Okay, let's explore this idea. You are missing an entire family of methods that would work quite well and not lead to the kinds of problems periodic billing would engender. Sales tax, VAT, etc. is one form of this. And then, of course, there's income tax. We have somehow lost control of the simple idea of the "village" getting together to pay for stuff by exploding into a system of thousands of different taxes nobody can keep track of. The end result is massive waste of resources, bad management, substandard results and large government organizations that are mostly incompetent at nearly everything they do. My street has been repaved twice in 25 years. They tell me they are planning on repaving it yet again next year. This street is 25 years old. It was as close to perfect as one could get when I moved in, months after the built it. It was just as perfect just before they repaved it (twice). It is perfect now. And yet, they are going to do it again. The financial waste on this one street alone is nothing less than vomit-inducing. They are doing this to keep unionized government-agency workers employed. Oh, yes, they tore-up and rebuilt our perfect sidewalks a few months ago. Absolutely and utterly unnecessary. While I do recognize the idea of sending people a bill for taxes isn't great, sometimes I wish we had that, maybe for a year or so. Why? People have no clue whatsoever about how much of their money is being consumed by hundreds, if not thousands, of taxes they encounter on a daily basis. It would be fantastic to see one lump-sum bill show-up every month. I guarantee you voting decision would change radically after just a few months of that. What they are doing to the population through this explosions in taxes should be criminal.

addaon 4y ago
> You are missing an entire family of methods that would work quite well and not lead to the kinds of problems periodic billing would engender. I am replying to your comment proposing periodic billing…
- robomartin 4y ago
  I understand. There are many intelligent ways to handle it. A comment on HN isn't a full study of all available options and ideas along with comparisons of their effectiveness, consequences and probabilities of success. Besides, given the impossibility of property taxes ever going away, this is very much on the category of... https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/shoot-the-shit/ https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/shoot-the-shit/
  - addaon 4y ago
    But fundamentally you haven't shown that there's any method of taxation that eliminates the revocability of property. What's your proposed response to non-payment if not compelled payment / forfeiture of assets?