4 ms·

magical thinking about very un-tethered and highly manipulated currency is not a help. imagining it will change for an entire economy ... is quite irrational.

magical thinking about very un-tethered and highly manipulated currency is not a help. imagining it will change for an entire economy ... is quite irrational. no magic will make a constantly shifting ice floe into boring bedrock.

shagymoe 4y ago
The current system is more irrational, unless you're benefiting from the corrupt system. Bitcoin is democratic and you vote with a node.
- roarcher 4y ago
  Yes, and its voters vote for their own profits, which makes it swing wildly. Being "democratic" doesn't make something immune to greed.
  - shagymoe 4y ago
    It's clear you don't understand how nodes or "voting" works. There's no mechanism there which would induce wild swings.
    - roarcher 4y ago
      I do, actually. I never said there was a mechanism that induces swings--there doesn't need to be one. The users do it through speculation, just like with any other asset, only it's worse with Bitcoin because it isn't tied to anything of real value, even theoretically (unless you think wasted CPU/GPU cycles are valuable). Being "democratic" doesn't magically safeguard against that. I'm not a fan of the fed and I think some sort of decentralized currency would be great. Bitcoin was a good idea and I'm glad we're experimenting along those lines, but it's a failed experiment. It's never going to work as a mainstream currency. Maybe some future iteration of the cryptocurrency idea will be the solution, but Bitcoin ain't it.
      - latchkey 4y ago
        Bitcoin has been using ASICs for over 9 years now. Maybe you're thinking of Ethereum, which just moved off GPUs last year and as a result, destroyed the economics around mining with GPUs. So, that whole wasted cycles argument doesn't really hold up any longer. Bitcoin is a store of value. I can borrow against it as collateral, which gives it real value in finance.
        roarcher 4y ago
        > Bitcoin has been using ASICs for over 9 years now. Uhh...okay? My point is obviously that it's a waste of energy. If someone manages to mine it using vacuum tubes powered by an ox on a treadmill, do I have to mention that too? > Bitcoin is a store of value. I can borrow against it as collateral, which gives it real value in finance. I'm not disputing that some people are foolish enough to agree to park their money in it. That doesn't make it a stable place to do so, which is, you know, a slightly important quality in a currency.
        latchkey 4y ago
        > My point is obviously that it's a waste of energy. No, it isn't. We could get into why it isn't, but we both know your mind is made up because you haven't really dived into that yourself. Or if you do really care, start reading a bit of what Dan Held has to say. https://danhedl.medium.com/pow-is-efficient-aa3d442754d3 https://danhedl.medium.com/pow-is-efficient-aa3d442754d3 > That doesn't make it a stable place to do so, which is, you know, a slightly important quality in a currency. You're missing the entire point of bitcoin. There can only be 21m. It is something that no government can compete with. Jack Mallers had an entertaining rant recently... https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1637886456570978320 https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/163788645657097832... As we are seeing right now, banks aren't a stable place. Literally, hundreds of companies were on the verge of losing everything a week ago, until the government bailed them out. USD isn't a stable place either. You probably earn dollars (ie: you buy dollars as a result of working) and those dollars are consistently worth less due to inflation every second of the day. How is that a better model?

shagymoe 4y ago

The current system is more irrational, unless you're benefiting from the corrupt system. Bitcoin is democratic and you vote with a node.

roarcher 4y ago
Yes, and its voters vote for their own profits, which makes it swing wildly. Being "democratic" doesn't make something immune to greed.
- shagymoe 4y ago
  It's clear you don't understand how nodes or "voting" works. There's no mechanism there which would induce wild swings.
  - roarcher 4y ago
    I do, actually. I never said there was a mechanism that induces swings--there doesn't need to be one. The users do it through speculation, just like with any other asset, only it's worse with Bitcoin because it isn't tied to anything of real value, even theoretically (unless you think wasted CPU/GPU cycles are valuable). Being "democratic" doesn't magically safeguard against that. I'm not a fan of the fed and I think some sort of decentralized currency would be great. Bitcoin was a good idea and I'm glad we're experimenting along those lines, but it's a failed experiment. It's never going to work as a mainstream currency. Maybe some future iteration of the cryptocurrency idea will be the solution, but Bitcoin ain't it.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      Bitcoin has been using ASICs for over 9 years now. Maybe you're thinking of Ethereum, which just moved off GPUs last year and as a result, destroyed the economics around mining with GPUs. So, that whole wasted cycles argument doesn't really hold up any longer. Bitcoin is a store of value. I can borrow against it as collateral, which gives it real value in finance.
      - roarcher 4y ago
        > Bitcoin has been using ASICs for over 9 years now. Uhh...okay? My point is obviously that it's a waste of energy. If someone manages to mine it using vacuum tubes powered by an ox on a treadmill, do I have to mention that too? > Bitcoin is a store of value. I can borrow against it as collateral, which gives it real value in finance. I'm not disputing that some people are foolish enough to agree to park their money in it. That doesn't make it a stable place to do so, which is, you know, a slightly important quality in a currency.
        latchkey 4y ago
        > My point is obviously that it's a waste of energy. No, it isn't. We could get into why it isn't, but we both know your mind is made up because you haven't really dived into that yourself. Or if you do really care, start reading a bit of what Dan Held has to say. https://danhedl.medium.com/pow-is-efficient-aa3d442754d3 https://danhedl.medium.com/pow-is-efficient-aa3d442754d3 > That doesn't make it a stable place to do so, which is, you know, a slightly important quality in a currency. You're missing the entire point of bitcoin. There can only be 21m. It is something that no government can compete with. Jack Mallers had an entertaining rant recently... https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/1637886456570978320 https://twitter.com/DocumentingBTC/status/163788645657097832... As we are seeing right now, banks aren't a stable place. Literally, hundreds of companies were on the verge of losing everything a week ago, until the government bailed them out. USD isn't a stable place either. You probably earn dollars (ie: you buy dollars as a result of working) and those dollars are consistently worth less due to inflation every second of the day. How is that a better model?