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The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency. You're not even attempting to argue in good faith or imagine how things could b

The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency. You're not even attempting to argue in good faith or imagine how things could be different. What you call "angsty" is what I call "rational". I see you're happy to continue experiencing these crises which are, in fact, happening. Also, I don't think you know what grifterism means, if that's even a word.

latchkey 4y ago
HN can't think past price goes up/down and see that a lot of crypto is a valuable resource that you can use as collateral and borrow against it without having to go to a bank and beg for permission.
- philipwhiuk 4y ago
  You still need permission from the person/company on the other side to use crypto as collateral.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    And there have been a lot of painful lessons lately as to why that's a bad idea.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. I can take crypto (and I'm talking about BTC/ETH, but can be others) and lend it out (generally for a positive APY). I can then borrow (typically USD*, but can be many other tokens) against that collateral (sometimes even for a positive APY!). No permission needed and happens in the scope of transactions that cost pennies. This is a massively important aspect of finance that goes beyond daily price swings. It is a relatively new aspect in crypto that has only been around for the last ~3 years or so. Example: https://aave.com/ https://aave.com/ ($8.2b locked up right now)
jeezfrk 4y ago
magical thinking about very un-tethered and highly manipulated currency is not a help. imagining it will change for an entire economy ... is quite irrational. no magic will make a constantly shifting ice floe into boring bedrock.
- shagymoe 4y ago
  The current system is more irrational, unless you're benefiting from the corrupt system. Bitcoin is democratic and you vote with a node.
  - roarcher 4y ago
    Yes, and its voters vote for their own profits, which makes it swing wildly. Being "democratic" doesn't make something immune to greed.
    - shagymoe 4y ago
      It's clear you don't understand how nodes or "voting" works. There's no mechanism there which would induce wild swings.
      - roarcher 4y ago
        I do, actually. I never said there was a mechanism that induces swings--there doesn't need to be one. The users do it through speculation, just like with any other asset, only it's worse with Bitcoin because it isn't tied to anything of real value, even theoretically (unless you think wasted CPU/GPU cycles are valuable). Being "democratic" doesn't magically safeguard against that. I'm not a fan of the fed and I think some sort of decentralized currency would be great. Bitcoin was a good idea and I'm glad we're experimenting along those lines, but it's a failed experiment. It's never going to work as a mainstream currency. Maybe some future iteration of the cryptocurrency idea will be the solution, but Bitcoin ain't it.
        latchkey 4y ago
csomar 4y ago
> The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency. I wouldn't think so. Many of our "crisis" are due to the value of "cash" or liquidity to fluctuate significantly. This is the case in the recent banking crisis. In the case of Bitcoin, this will be a deep dive in price. Now which one is better? I don't know.

latchkey 4y ago

HN can't think past price goes up/down and see that a lot of crypto is a valuable resource that you can use as collateral and borrow against it without having to go to a bank and beg for permission.

philipwhiuk 4y ago
You still need permission from the person/company on the other side to use crypto as collateral.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  And there have been a lot of painful lessons lately as to why that's a bad idea.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. I can take crypto (and I'm talking about BTC/ETH, but can be others) and lend it out (generally for a positive APY). I can then borrow (typically USD*, but can be many other tokens) against that collateral (sometimes even for a positive APY!). No permission needed and happens in the scope of transactions that cost pennies. This is a massively important aspect of finance that goes beyond daily price swings. It is a relatively new aspect in crypto that has only been around for the last ~3 years or so. Example: https://aave.com/ https://aave.com/ ($8.2b locked up right now)

jeezfrk 4y ago

magical thinking about very un-tethered and highly manipulated currency is not a help. imagining it will change for an entire economy ... is quite irrational. no magic will make a constantly shifting ice floe into boring bedrock.

shagymoe 4y ago
The current system is more irrational, unless you're benefiting from the corrupt system. Bitcoin is democratic and you vote with a node.
- roarcher 4y ago
  Yes, and its voters vote for their own profits, which makes it swing wildly. Being "democratic" doesn't make something immune to greed.
  - shagymoe 4y ago
    It's clear you don't understand how nodes or "voting" works. There's no mechanism there which would induce wild swings.
    - roarcher 4y ago
      I do, actually. I never said there was a mechanism that induces swings--there doesn't need to be one. The users do it through speculation, just like with any other asset, only it's worse with Bitcoin because it isn't tied to anything of real value, even theoretically (unless you think wasted CPU/GPU cycles are valuable). Being "democratic" doesn't magically safeguard against that. I'm not a fan of the fed and I think some sort of decentralized currency would be great. Bitcoin was a good idea and I'm glad we're experimenting along those lines, but it's a failed experiment. It's never going to work as a mainstream currency. Maybe some future iteration of the cryptocurrency idea will be the solution, but Bitcoin ain't it.
      - latchkey 4y ago

csomar 4y ago

> The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency. I wouldn't think so. Many of our "crisis" are due to the value of "cash" or liquidity to fluctuate significantly. This is the case in the recent banking crisis. In the case of Bitcoin, this will be a deep dive in price. Now which one is better? I don't know.