4 ms·

I am an American living in Spain, running an American company, paying US taxes. I am neither a Spanish citizen nor a permanent resident. Google decided that my

by cft 4y ago

I am an American living in Spain, running an American company, paying US taxes. I am neither a Spanish citizen nor a permanent resident. Google decided that my accounts are Spanish and switched them. "Bard is not available in your country". My country is the USA. I wonder what's next, my American Google voice and Google Fi phone numbers so i lose US banking access? Be very scared of this Orwellian company.

tantalor 4y ago
> My country is the USA. You would prefer companies know your citizenship and immigration status, somehow verify that, and tie their services to it? And that would somehow preserve your privacy better than geolocation?
- theonemind 4y ago
  He'd probably prefer that Google just not switch his account based on the circumstantial evidence (as such) of accessing his account from Spain.
- cft 4y ago
  Yes, i can submit photos holding my passport with a piece of paper with a code written on it, my driver's license: somehow it's enough for the KYC in all crypto exchanges and in all online stock brokers, but Google won't take that.
- supermatt 4y ago
  Google cant even get my language right - and its right there in my request headers. For some reason they always want to base it on geolocation. And then, when you go to change the language, it shows all the language options in the language you are trying to translate from. So useful for people travelling to countries where they dont speak the language, or cant distinguish the characters... Geolocation is a sucky way of deciding anything about a user.
ajross 4y ago
The question isn't one of citizenship or abstract identity. The question is "Which laws will the content you are served be subject to?". If you don't want to be subject to Spanish law, get out of Spain.
- cft 4y ago
  So why do they wait 6 months and not change immediately when you get off the plane and use your android phone? And then back? When i get back to the US, i will have Spanish Google accounts for at least 6 (or 12?) months, while using them from my own house.
  - ajross 4y ago
    To prevent trivial exploits using VPNs, probably. Look, the problem here is that internet providers are trying to follow the law ("avoid fines" if you prefer the cynical framing). The law is different in EU countries than it is in the USA, in some very important ways. And they need to be seen making a good faith effort to enforce those laws. A six month grace period for an account "primarily used" in one regime seems not terribly unreasonable to me. But that's not what your original comment was asking for anyway. You wanted to be sitting in Barcelona or wherever and e.g. not be subject to the GDPR and EU-specific data retention requirements (which is presumably the issue here: Bard likely isn't yet compliant being probably all hosted in the USA).
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  But it's not 'get out of spain'. It's 'get out of spain and wait 6 months for Google to decide you are no longer spanish'.
afavour 4y ago
Other issues aside, is that actually legal? I've always been under the impression that you need to pay local taxes wherever you're working but would be delighted to be proven wrong.
- cft 4y ago
  You don't pay Spanish taxes if you don't derive any income from Spain and if you are less than 183 days per year in the country. If you are more than 183 days per year in the country, there's a Spanish tax treaty with the US, and you pay US taxes on your US income anyway. And if all you have is $10mm on your checking account but no income, you don't pay any taxes anywhere.
  - davidgay 4y ago
    > And if all you have is $10mm on your checking account but no income, you don't pay any taxes anywhere. Wealth taxes are a thing too, e.g., in Switzerland.
- aix1 4y ago
  I have no knowledge of the GP's tax position, but paying local taxes and paying US taxes are not mutually exclusive. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-individual-tax-matters https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq... <quote> 1. I’m a U.S. citizen living and working outside of the United States for many years. Do I still need to file a U.S. tax return? Yes, if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live. However, you may qualify for certain foreign earned income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits. Visit Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad, for additional information. </quote>
- akskos 4y ago
  Depends on country specific tax agreements. Worst case is you need to pay taxes to both countries
- tehCorner 4y ago
datadeft 4y ago
Google put one of my email account into a state that I cannot change the password. It somebody wants to brute force the pass from 2010 free to do so. Nothing I can do.
sergiomattei 4y ago
I’m in Puerto Rico, quite literally part of the United States, and apparently we’re not American enough to have access. Not available in your country. Sigh.
diceduckmonk 4y ago
FYI, If you are abroad for longer than a year, they will shutdown call and data access for your Google Fi. Learned the hard way. That said, their technical support was absolutely robotic and useless, and might as well be replaced with Bard, whatever state its in.
- cft 4y ago
  They already have (i was sick with covid, walking to a store when i suddenly lost online maps and data access), i am using voice/SMS only for 2FA authentication for all my American business, including banking and brokerages. Perhaps they cannot shut the voice down due to some FCC consequences. Scary.
  - diceduckmonk 4y ago
    It feels like Google Fi is in maintenance mode. Someone got their promotion and moved on. I used to this the Deprecated by Google memes were harsh, but that will be the last time I rely on a Google product for work or life.
gorbypark 4y ago
I had a situation fairly similar as a Canadian living in Spain. I moved back to Canada and my account was now “Spanish” and it caused all sorts of issues, especially with my google home minis. I also had a hard time adding a Canadian credit card to my account to pay for Google Workspaces.

by cft 4y ago

tantalor 4y ago

> My country is the USA. You would prefer companies know your citizenship and immigration status, somehow verify that, and tie their services to it? And that would somehow preserve your privacy better than geolocation?

theonemind 4y ago
He'd probably prefer that Google just not switch his account based on the circumstantial evidence (as such) of accessing his account from Spain.
cft 4y ago
Yes, i can submit photos holding my passport with a piece of paper with a code written on it, my driver's license: somehow it's enough for the KYC in all crypto exchanges and in all online stock brokers, but Google won't take that.
supermatt 4y ago
Google cant even get my language right - and its right there in my request headers. For some reason they always want to base it on geolocation. And then, when you go to change the language, it shows all the language options in the language you are trying to translate from. So useful for people travelling to countries where they dont speak the language, or cant distinguish the characters... Geolocation is a sucky way of deciding anything about a user.

ajross 4y ago

The question isn't one of citizenship or abstract identity. The question is "Which laws will the content you are served be subject to?". If you don't want to be subject to Spanish law, get out of Spain.

cft 4y ago
So why do they wait 6 months and not change immediately when you get off the plane and use your android phone? And then back? When i get back to the US, i will have Spanish Google accounts for at least 6 (or 12?) months, while using them from my own house.
- ajross 4y ago
  To prevent trivial exploits using VPNs, probably. Look, the problem here is that internet providers are trying to follow the law ("avoid fines" if you prefer the cynical framing). The law is different in EU countries than it is in the USA, in some very important ways. And they need to be seen making a good faith effort to enforce those laws. A six month grace period for an account "primarily used" in one regime seems not terribly unreasonable to me. But that's not what your original comment was asking for anyway. You wanted to be sitting in Barcelona or wherever and e.g. not be subject to the GDPR and EU-specific data retention requirements (which is presumably the issue here: Bard likely isn't yet compliant being probably all hosted in the USA).
sebzim4500 4y ago
But it's not 'get out of spain'. It's 'get out of spain and wait 6 months for Google to decide you are no longer spanish'.

afavour 4y ago

Other issues aside, is that actually legal? I've always been under the impression that you need to pay local taxes wherever you're working but would be delighted to be proven wrong.

cft 4y ago
You don't pay Spanish taxes if you don't derive any income from Spain and if you are less than 183 days per year in the country. If you are more than 183 days per year in the country, there's a Spanish tax treaty with the US, and you pay US taxes on your US income anyway. And if all you have is $10mm on your checking account but no income, you don't pay any taxes anywhere.
- davidgay 4y ago
  > And if all you have is $10mm on your checking account but no income, you don't pay any taxes anywhere. Wealth taxes are a thing too, e.g., in Switzerland.
aix1 4y ago
I have no knowledge of the GP's tax position, but paying local taxes and paying US taxes are not mutually exclusive. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-individual-tax-matters https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/freq... <quote> 1. I’m a U.S. citizen living and working outside of the United States for many years. Do I still need to file a U.S. tax return? Yes, if you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien living outside the United States, your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you live. However, you may qualify for certain foreign earned income exclusions and/or foreign income tax credits. Visit Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad, for additional information. </quote>
akskos 4y ago
Depends on country specific tax agreements. Worst case is you need to pay taxes to both countries
tehCorner 4y ago

datadeft 4y ago

Google put one of my email account into a state that I cannot change the password. It somebody wants to brute force the pass from 2010 free to do so. Nothing I can do.

sergiomattei 4y ago

I’m in Puerto Rico, quite literally part of the United States, and apparently we’re not American enough to have access. Not available in your country. Sigh.

diceduckmonk 4y ago

FYI, If you are abroad for longer than a year, they will shutdown call and data access for your Google Fi. Learned the hard way. That said, their technical support was absolutely robotic and useless, and might as well be replaced with Bard, whatever state its in.

cft 4y ago
They already have (i was sick with covid, walking to a store when i suddenly lost online maps and data access), i am using voice/SMS only for 2FA authentication for all my American business, including banking and brokerages. Perhaps they cannot shut the voice down due to some FCC consequences. Scary.
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  It feels like Google Fi is in maintenance mode. Someone got their promotion and moved on. I used to this the Deprecated by Google memes were harsh, but that will be the last time I rely on a Google product for work or life.

gorbypark 4y ago

I had a situation fairly similar as a Canadian living in Spain. I moved back to Canada and my account was now “Spanish” and it caused all sorts of issues, especially with my google home minis. I also had a hard time adding a Canadian credit card to my account to pay for Google Workspaces.