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Fun fact , sperm whale oil was used in car transmissions until the 1970s when it was outlawed by the Endangered Species Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp

Fun fact , sperm whale oil was used in car transmissions until the 1970s when it was outlawed by the Endangered Species Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil#Applications https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil#Applications

tda 4y ago
Wow: > The loss of sperm oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Yeah that stuck out to me too. Even if you assume that it's a raw number and is also reflecting increased adoption of automatic transmission it's kind of hard to blame a huge 8x multiple on solely the oil without something else to corroborate it (like sales figures for wet clutch and brake friction parts used in industrial applications which would be subject to the same increased wear if the oil was sub-par). Transmission fluid isn't special. It's basically just yet another variant of hydraulic fluid. The hydraulic parts of a transmission pretty much never have problems relative to the frequency with which the friction parts simply wear out. So other oil running clutches so see the same increase in failure rate over that time. Assuming the number itself is accurate OEMs producing designs with additional gears and lockup converters with the bare minimum of refinement (ship now fix later type engineering) in response to the fuel crisis probably deserves some blame.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    this is fairly typical behaviour. when a product is outlawed, there’s nearly always an adaptation phase for example, solder from the few years after the British ban on production use of the leaded stuff is often very poor, but—contrary to what vested interests would have you believe—humans adapt. demand creates solutions
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      I remember a datacenter at an old job had a run in with "tin whiskers" forming off power supplies and eventually causing shorts that I believe was related to the solder issue.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        Those whiskers can only be so long, right?
      - permo-w 4y ago
        could someone explain to me why might this be being downvoted?
  - gwbas1c 4y ago
    Spermaceti (whale oil) based lubricants handled much higher temperatures than petroleum based lubricants. That was why automatic transmissions used spermaceti instead of petroleum based lubricants. That's also why the shift away from spermaceti impacted reliability: automatic transmissions in the 1970s needed lubricants that handled higher temperatures. Fun fact: Spermaceti is actually a wax, not an oil.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      The magnitude of the claim is contradicted by the lack of circumstantial evidence. If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good and why don't people find gallons of it saved here and there the same way you find lead paint or R12 refrigerant? Why isn't there some body of tribal knowledge saying that transmissions sucked in the 70s like we have for engines? I don't doubt for a minute that the government would ham-fistedly ban something without a viable alternative and that the textbook engineer types would crunch numbers on the replacement and conclude that "it'll be fine with no changes to our hardware, run it" leading to a higher failure rate, but 8x failure (or even 5x failure rate, to account for increased number of automatic transmissions out there) rate? That's absurd. I'd love to read the source for the claim but it's a paper version of a trade publication...
      - giraffe_lady 4y ago
        > If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good When I was wrenching on cars in the 80s there absolutely were! We're talking about 50 years ago so you might need to find some older old timers but this was totally a thing.
        dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        Due to my hobby I hang out with mechanically inclined men aged ~30-70. I have heard them praise all manner of things from years past. If there's one thing they agree has pretty much constantly gotten better with no regressions along the way it's automotive lubricants, at least up until the point where they took the zinc out of motor oil. Now, I suspect there definitely are some regressions, but they're definitely small enough to get lost.
- int_19h 4y ago
  There seems to have been a similar issue with gun lubricants - sperm oil was used for that, as well, and for similar reasons, so when transition happened, it affected reliability: https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  I still have a bottle of 'New Old Stock' GM whale oil for the rear differential in my old GTO. GM positraction in those old muscle cars relied on the stuff.
gwbas1c 4y ago
Even more fun fact: Yes wrote the song "Don't Kill the Whale:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvdHRhIHNhdmUgdGhlIHdoYWxl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvd... They also were known to travel in separate private limousines in LA, which probably had whale oil transmissions. I always think about them traveling to a vegetarian restaurant in LA in separate limos when I listen to that song.

tda 4y ago

Wow: > The loss of sperm oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Yeah that stuck out to me too. Even if you assume that it's a raw number and is also reflecting increased adoption of automatic transmission it's kind of hard to blame a huge 8x multiple on solely the oil without something else to corroborate it (like sales figures for wet clutch and brake friction parts used in industrial applications which would be subject to the same increased wear if the oil was sub-par). Transmission fluid isn't special. It's basically just yet another variant of hydraulic fluid. The hydraulic parts of a transmission pretty much never have problems relative to the frequency with which the friction parts simply wear out. So other oil running clutches so see the same increase in failure rate over that time. Assuming the number itself is accurate OEMs producing designs with additional gears and lockup converters with the bare minimum of refinement (ship now fix later type engineering) in response to the fuel crisis probably deserves some blame.
- permo-w 4y ago
  this is fairly typical behaviour. when a product is outlawed, there’s nearly always an adaptation phase for example, solder from the few years after the British ban on production use of the leaded stuff is often very poor, but—contrary to what vested interests would have you believe—humans adapt. demand creates solutions
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    I remember a datacenter at an old job had a run in with "tin whiskers" forming off power supplies and eventually causing shorts that I believe was related to the solder issue.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      Those whiskers can only be so long, right?
    - permo-w 4y ago
      could someone explain to me why might this be being downvoted?
- gwbas1c 4y ago
  Spermaceti (whale oil) based lubricants handled much higher temperatures than petroleum based lubricants. That was why automatic transmissions used spermaceti instead of petroleum based lubricants. That's also why the shift away from spermaceti impacted reliability: automatic transmissions in the 1970s needed lubricants that handled higher temperatures. Fun fact: Spermaceti is actually a wax, not an oil.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    The magnitude of the claim is contradicted by the lack of circumstantial evidence. If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good and why don't people find gallons of it saved here and there the same way you find lead paint or R12 refrigerant? Why isn't there some body of tribal knowledge saying that transmissions sucked in the 70s like we have for engines? I don't doubt for a minute that the government would ham-fistedly ban something without a viable alternative and that the textbook engineer types would crunch numbers on the replacement and conclude that "it'll be fine with no changes to our hardware, run it" leading to a higher failure rate, but 8x failure (or even 5x failure rate, to account for increased number of automatic transmissions out there) rate? That's absurd. I'd love to read the source for the claim but it's a paper version of a trade publication...
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      > If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good When I was wrenching on cars in the 80s there absolutely were! We're talking about 50 years ago so you might need to find some older old timers but this was totally a thing.
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        Due to my hobby I hang out with mechanically inclined men aged ~30-70. I have heard them praise all manner of things from years past. If there's one thing they agree has pretty much constantly gotten better with no regressions along the way it's automotive lubricants, at least up until the point where they took the zinc out of motor oil. Now, I suspect there definitely are some regressions, but they're definitely small enough to get lost.
int_19h 4y ago
There seems to have been a similar issue with gun lubricants - sperm oil was used for that, as well, and for similar reasons, so when transition happened, it affected reliability: https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil
ROTMetro 4y ago
I still have a bottle of 'New Old Stock' GM whale oil for the rear differential in my old GTO. GM positraction in those old muscle cars relied on the stuff.

gwbas1c 4y ago

Even more fun fact: Yes wrote the song "Don't Kill the Whale:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvdHRhIHNhdmUgdGhlIHdoYWxl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvd... They also were known to travel in separate private limousines in LA, which probably had whale oil transmissions. I always think about them traveling to a vegetarian restaurant in LA in separate limos when I listen to that song.