3 ms·

Bah they forgot to mention the best bit. He keeps already-made klein bottles in the crawlspace under his house, and built a remote controlled fpv mini-forklift

Bah they forgot to mention the best bit. He keeps already-made klein bottles in the crawlspace under his house, and built a remote controlled fpv mini-forklift to retrieve them on demand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU

CliffStoll 4y ago
Sigh — for all the time it saves me in carrying boxes from the crawlspace under our house … I probably spend as much time fixing, maintaining and improving the thing. Much fun, of course — I’ve built a line following device for it and played with PyTorch to get it to semiautomaticly pick boxes from stock. Yep - every minute it saves me goes right back into fooling around with the three-wheeled beast.
- adityaathalye 4y ago
  Well I happen to think that's a good general strategy to live life. Replace non-fun labour and time with fun labour and time. No matter then, if the fun version is all about automating the non-fun version (or vice versa)!
  - bb88 4y ago
    There's a book called "Automate the boring stuff with python." https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
- jacknews 4y ago
  You're doing extremely well if you're breaking even! I think sometimes it's all about the journey, not the destination.
  - taylorius 4y ago
    "You're doing extremely well if you're breaking even!" The automater's slightly underwhelming battle cry! :-D
- l-albertovich 4y ago
  Oh boy! Ever since I listened to The cuckoo's egg I wanted to reach out to tell you how much I loved it, I enjoyed ever single minute out of the almost 13 hours so thank you very much for it. I'm looking forward to reading or listening to Silicon snake oil and High tech heretic but those are not available in Storytel so I'll have to wait until I have time to read them in paper.
  - jacknews 4y ago
    +1 I think I was gifted a copy of the book when it came out. It sat on a shelf for a few months, and then I casually picked it up late one workday evening ... and didn't put it down again until the last page. Just in time to leave for work the following morning, lol.
    - l-albertovich 4y ago
      Yeah, not only the story was really interesting from a technical point of view but the storytelling and the social aspects of his relationship with his SO and their social circle were really enjoyable. I even chuckled when he got mad and went to the garage to sand stuff (I won't spoil the rest) because of how close to home the entire thing hit.
- jjkaczor 4y ago
  Heh - it's a "project" - myself, between learning to do 3d printing, in order to build parts/widgets to get my diode laser running for etching/engraving/cutting, it is an endless stream of tweaking this or that. OTOH, I am able to repair/replace things that would have been junk. (For example, I have a keyboard slider tray, where during a move, I lost the plastic sliders - those little parts paid for the cost of the 3d printer) Go next level - implement a QR code label and recognition system, so it can find the correct box automatically. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Also - thank-you for your books, I read "The Cuckoo's Egg" when I was 18 and it was one of the most amazing things I had read to that point. (I also loved "Silicon Snake Oil" - but missed "High-Tech Herectic")
- stavros 4y ago
  Yeah, but building a robot is fun in the way that moving bottles is not, so the time costs on each are very different!
- godtoldmetodoit 4y ago
  Cliff, I just wanted to take a moment to say that The Cuckoo's Egg was formative in my youth and was definitely one of things that led me into getting into IT and programming. You just seem like such a nice, wonderful, fascinating human. Hope you have a great day!
  - CliffStoll 4y ago
    Thanks to you, GTMTDI! May your career be as satisfying (but hopefully less interesting) than mine. My day? Oh, it looks like I'll be sending out Klein bottles (thanks to Hacker News people!). I suspect that I'm the only shipping clerk in Northern California with a degree in planetary physics.
- sanderjd 4y ago
  Classic: https://xkcd.com/1319/ https://xkcd.com/1319/ ("Automation").
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
The longer i think about projects such as this, the more convinced i am that a small rail system such as it is for hollywood, and little wagons with containers would be ideal for such a house storage space. Just one motor and a linear distance index and you can turn that space into a storage on rail.
- qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  And come to think of it, that rail system could fit anywhere.. have old AC ducts? Rail Storage. High Rooms? Rail Storage behind a drop ceiling! Garagespace? But rails on a rack.. Have rubys in a mine? Goto put it on rails. Idea runaway exception thrown..
- CliffStoll 4y ago
  A problem that recurs in my little storage system is precise 4 degree-of-freedom positioning in a complex environment. Locating the forklift to centimeter accuracy (X,Y, Z and theta) has been a programming challenge, as well as properly handling palletized boxes. Much fun to figure out, but it's still way more efficient to guide the forklift using cameras and remote hand-control.
  - db48x 4y ago
    I'm no expert, but perhaps reckoning from the cart‘s position is the wrong approach. When you run the thing by hand, most of what you are doing is keeping some waypoint or other centered in the camera view. Perhaps it would be easier if that's what your automation did. People used to talk about how the brain had to solve differential equations to catch a baseball until they noticed that all a ball-catching player really does is move their body so as to keep the ball centered in their vision.

CliffStoll 4y ago

Sigh — for all the time it saves me in carrying boxes from the crawlspace under our house … I probably spend as much time fixing, maintaining and improving the thing. Much fun, of course — I’ve built a line following device for it and played with PyTorch to get it to semiautomaticly pick boxes from stock. Yep - every minute it saves me goes right back into fooling around with the three-wheeled beast.

adityaathalye 4y ago
Well I happen to think that's a good general strategy to live life. Replace non-fun labour and time with fun labour and time. No matter then, if the fun version is all about automating the non-fun version (or vice versa)!
- bb88 4y ago
  There's a book called "Automate the boring stuff with python." https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
jacknews 4y ago
You're doing extremely well if you're breaking even! I think sometimes it's all about the journey, not the destination.
- taylorius 4y ago
  "You're doing extremely well if you're breaking even!" The automater's slightly underwhelming battle cry! :-D
l-albertovich 4y ago
Oh boy! Ever since I listened to The cuckoo's egg I wanted to reach out to tell you how much I loved it, I enjoyed ever single minute out of the almost 13 hours so thank you very much for it. I'm looking forward to reading or listening to Silicon snake oil and High tech heretic but those are not available in Storytel so I'll have to wait until I have time to read them in paper.
- jacknews 4y ago
  +1 I think I was gifted a copy of the book when it came out. It sat on a shelf for a few months, and then I casually picked it up late one workday evening ... and didn't put it down again until the last page. Just in time to leave for work the following morning, lol.
  - l-albertovich 4y ago
    Yeah, not only the story was really interesting from a technical point of view but the storytelling and the social aspects of his relationship with his SO and their social circle were really enjoyable. I even chuckled when he got mad and went to the garage to sand stuff (I won't spoil the rest) because of how close to home the entire thing hit.
jjkaczor 4y ago
Heh - it's a "project" - myself, between learning to do 3d printing, in order to build parts/widgets to get my diode laser running for etching/engraving/cutting, it is an endless stream of tweaking this or that. OTOH, I am able to repair/replace things that would have been junk. (For example, I have a keyboard slider tray, where during a move, I lost the plastic sliders - those little parts paid for the cost of the 3d printer) Go next level - implement a QR code label and recognition system, so it can find the correct box automatically. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Also - thank-you for your books, I read "The Cuckoo's Egg" when I was 18 and it was one of the most amazing things I had read to that point. (I also loved "Silicon Snake Oil" - but missed "High-Tech Herectic")
stavros 4y ago
Yeah, but building a robot is fun in the way that moving bottles is not, so the time costs on each are very different!
godtoldmetodoit 4y ago
Cliff, I just wanted to take a moment to say that The Cuckoo's Egg was formative in my youth and was definitely one of things that led me into getting into IT and programming. You just seem like such a nice, wonderful, fascinating human. Hope you have a great day!
- CliffStoll 4y ago
  Thanks to you, GTMTDI! May your career be as satisfying (but hopefully less interesting) than mine. My day? Oh, it looks like I'll be sending out Klein bottles (thanks to Hacker News people!). I suspect that I'm the only shipping clerk in Northern California with a degree in planetary physics.
sanderjd 4y ago
Classic: https://xkcd.com/1319/ https://xkcd.com/1319/ ("Automation").

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

The longer i think about projects such as this, the more convinced i am that a small rail system such as it is for hollywood, and little wagons with containers would be ideal for such a house storage space. Just one motor and a linear distance index and you can turn that space into a storage on rail.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
And come to think of it, that rail system could fit anywhere.. have old AC ducts? Rail Storage. High Rooms? Rail Storage behind a drop ceiling! Garagespace? But rails on a rack.. Have rubys in a mine? Goto put it on rails. Idea runaway exception thrown..
CliffStoll 4y ago
A problem that recurs in my little storage system is precise 4 degree-of-freedom positioning in a complex environment. Locating the forklift to centimeter accuracy (X,Y, Z and theta) has been a programming challenge, as well as properly handling palletized boxes. Much fun to figure out, but it's still way more efficient to guide the forklift using cameras and remote hand-control.
- db48x 4y ago
  I'm no expert, but perhaps reckoning from the cart‘s position is the wrong approach. When you run the thing by hand, most of what you are doing is keeping some waypoint or other centered in the camera view. Perhaps it would be easier if that's what your automation did. People used to talk about how the brain had to solve differential equations to catch a baseball until they noticed that all a ball-catching player really does is move their body so as to keep the ball centered in their vision.