4 ms·

But it's been growing. Not just in CA but across the US. https://www.chcf.org/publication/2022-edition-substance-use-california/ https://www.chcf.org/publicati

But it's been growing. Not just in CA but across the US. https://www.chcf.org/publication/2022-edition-substance-use-california/ https://www.chcf.org/publication/2022-edition-substance-use-...

annoyingnoob 4y ago
Comparing 2018 to 2022, the numbers are almost the same, no huge jump in 4 years only slight differences overall. https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018QRG.pdf https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUse... https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2022QRG.pdf https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SubstanceUse...
- HervalFreire 4y ago
  Quoted from the same site in the 2022 study: "The death rate from fentanyl increased 10-fold from 2015 to 2019. The rate of prescription opioid deaths fell 30% from 2011 to 2019." "The number of amphetamine-related emergency department visits increased nearly 50% between 2018 and 2020. The number of non-heroin-related opioid ED visits more than doubled in the same period." Doesn't look like minor changes to me.
  - annoyingnoob 4y ago
    If the amount of use is approximately the same, why is there an increase in hospitalization and death? My original point was more about policing. Lack of Draconian policing of drugs is not the cause of the increase in hospitalizations and deaths from fentanyl, amphetamine, and opioids.
    - HervalFreire 4y ago
      To your point and my sibling comment. There's a reason why the drug type can shift in such an extreme manner. It's because of lack of policing.
      - annoyingnoob 4y ago
        No, it is because the people producing and selling these drugs can give you the high you want at a lower cost to themselves, it is about profit margin. Edit: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fentanyl-deadly-drug-dealers-lace-illicit-drugs/story?id=96827602 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fentanyl-deadly-drug-dealers-l...
        HervalFreire 4y ago
        But where are these drugs coming from? Why isn't the source cut off or stopped? Hint: lack of policing.
        annoyingnoob 4y ago
        The last 50 years of history does not agree with you. https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig... https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c... https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of- https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of-...
        HervalFreire 4y ago
        There are examples where policing does work. See Japan and Singapore. Also note those two places have the lowest incidence of drug use and homelessness. It could be because of the viciousness of the punishment. In the US the punishment matches the degree of the crime in the sense that if you sell drugs you get a punishment that you deserve. In Singapore if you get caught selling over 500mg of weed you are executed via death penalty. The punishment does not match the crime, but rather the punishment is designed to be as effective as possible in eliminating the crime all together via deterrence and Darwinian artificial selection. Policing DOES work, it's just most people, you included, are drug users. So you want to end homelessness, you want to stop people from over-abusing drugs, but as a casual user yourself you don't want to be put to death either or anything like that so you have to find some middle ground that works. The problem is there is no middle ground. The US drug war was middle ground and as you and your articles pointed out, it was largely NOT effective. From a personal standpoint I don't use drugs. Morally I'm more of a middle ground type of a person. I think moderation isn't a big deal. Objectively though, since I have no skin in the game, I would support Singaporean measures to stop drugs and homelessness all together.
    - calvinmorrison 4y ago
      because the primary drugs have shifted towards more lethal options, ie fent and other analogues. More deadly = more death A nice graph here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/OpioidDeathsByTypeUS.png/1920px-OpioidDeathsByTypeUS.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Op...
      - annoyingnoob 4y ago
        Right, its not about policing and its not about a much larger number of people using drugs, its that the drugs changed to make them more profitable.

But it's been growing. Not just in CA but across the US. https://www.chcf.org/publication/2022-edition-substance-use-california/ https://www.chcf.org/publication/2022-edition-substance-use-...

annoyingnoob 4y ago

Comparing 2018 to 2022, the numbers are almost the same, no huge jump in 4 years only slight differences overall. https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2018QRG.pdf https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SubstanceUse... https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SubstanceUseDisorderAlmanac2022QRG.pdf https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/SubstanceUse...

HervalFreire 4y ago
Quoted from the same site in the 2022 study: "The death rate from fentanyl increased 10-fold from 2015 to 2019. The rate of prescription opioid deaths fell 30% from 2011 to 2019." "The number of amphetamine-related emergency department visits increased nearly 50% between 2018 and 2020. The number of non-heroin-related opioid ED visits more than doubled in the same period." Doesn't look like minor changes to me.
- annoyingnoob 4y ago
  If the amount of use is approximately the same, why is there an increase in hospitalization and death? My original point was more about policing. Lack of Draconian policing of drugs is not the cause of the increase in hospitalizations and deaths from fentanyl, amphetamine, and opioids.
  - HervalFreire 4y ago
    To your point and my sibling comment. There's a reason why the drug type can shift in such an extreme manner. It's because of lack of policing.
    - annoyingnoob 4y ago
      No, it is because the people producing and selling these drugs can give you the high you want at a lower cost to themselves, it is about profit margin. Edit: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fentanyl-deadly-drug-dealers-lace-illicit-drugs/story?id=96827602 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fentanyl-deadly-drug-dealers-l...
      - HervalFreire 4y ago
        But where are these drugs coming from? Why isn't the source cut off or stopped? Hint: lack of policing.
        annoyingnoob 4y ago
        The last 50 years of history does not agree with you. https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig https://www.history.com/news/americas-war-on-drugs-was-desig... https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/four-decades-counting-c... https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of- https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1006495476/after-50-years-of-...
        HervalFreire 4y ago
        There are examples where policing does work. See Japan and Singapore. Also note those two places have the lowest incidence of drug use and homelessness. It could be because of the viciousness of the punishment. In the US the punishment matches the degree of the crime in the sense that if you sell drugs you get a punishment that you deserve. In Singapore if you get caught selling over 500mg of weed you are executed via death penalty. The punishment does not match the crime, but rather the punishment is designed to be as effective as possible in eliminating the crime all together via deterrence and Darwinian artificial selection. Policing DOES work, it's just most people, you included, are drug users. So you want to end homelessness, you want to stop people from over-abusing drugs, but as a casual user yourself you don't want to be put to death either or anything like that so you have to find some middle ground that works. The problem is there is no middle ground. The US drug war was middle ground and as you and your articles pointed out, it was largely NOT effective. From a personal standpoint I don't use drugs. Morally I'm more of a middle ground type of a person. I think moderation isn't a big deal. Objectively though, since I have no skin in the game, I would support Singaporean measures to stop drugs and homelessness all together.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    because the primary drugs have shifted towards more lethal options, ie fent and other analogues. More deadly = more death A nice graph here: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/OpioidDeathsByTypeUS.png/1920px-OpioidDeathsByTypeUS.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Op...
    - annoyingnoob 4y ago
      Right, its not about policing and its not about a much larger number of people using drugs, its that the drugs changed to make them more profitable.