3 ms·

What seems like bad news for the growth based human world, is great news for the biocentric view of the world. Yes, it is a rough road ahead but long term this

What seems like bad news for the growth based human world, is great news for the biocentric view of the world. Yes, it is a rough road ahead but long term this is not a bad thing.

andrekandre 4y ago
> bad news for the growth based human world if thats true, why would an investor even contemplate investing into anything? can capitalism even function without population growth?
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  Good point. Maybe we should stop doing capitalism and do something that's going to be sustainable for the long run.
  - NovaDudely 4y ago
    We need to refocus our goals. Not on just endless consumption, the idea that the one that can consume the most cheap junk is the winner. But to focus on genuine happiness. This means a focus back onto community and doing things not just for ourselves but for others - in a physical sense as well.
- NovaDudely 4y ago
  There is the idea of capitalism as a free trade between people to optimize towards a certain goal, there might be a future in that. And then there is the Capitalism of today that is entirely focused on the capital part - I don't think that will have long legs. The era of consistent returns on investments is probably going to fade over the coming decades. 3% interest year over year compounding - that will be a thing of the past. This is why the biggest revolution that gives us a chance will be the hardest one. The first act of revolution is contemplation. As Tolstoy said "We all want to change the world but we do not want to change ourselves". The time will come when we need to change ourselves. To not only make the Solar-punk future but the Dharma-punk future. We need L.E.S.S. Less Energy, Stuff & Stimulation. Use less, do less, be more.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    > We need L.E.S.S. Less Energy, Stuff & Stimulation. Use less, do less, be more. that sounds interesting, but how would you get shareholders to back such an idea? (sorry if this sounds contrarian, im just curious what ideas people have about this)
    - NovaDudely 4y ago
      It isn't contrarian, it is the hard questions that need to be asked. The current mind set of shareholders is incompatible with this. Shareholding/"investment" nowadays is merely gambling with extra steps. This is not always a bad thing, in that, one can invest/gamble on a business that can grow into something that benefits many people. The mindset change is that you invest to make better companies, not just to make more money. Invest in companies that make products that don't have planned obsolescence, that aren't hyper focused on just getting 5% profit growth next quarter etc. Or just trying to time the market so they can extract money from the greater fools. It would be an legitimate investment into business that would make the world a better place. Side note - The mind set of shareholding is very weird when you look at it. I remember back in about 2003/4 reading about the latest quarters reports on tech. Apples shares had dropped on the back of profit being about 5% lower than expected - they still made hundred of millions that quarter but because they missed expectation the shares dropped. AMD shares that quarter went up - why? Because while they took a lose, it wasn't as much as expected. But it will still a loss... the markets are a weird thing!
- thefz 4y ago
  > can capitalism even function without population growth? I wonder what is the expectation here. Cover every square meter of the earth with humans, or just squeeze more and more in the same places? What about resources like food, power... ?

What seems like bad news for the growth based human world, is great news for the biocentric view of the world. Yes, it is a rough road ahead but long term this is not a bad thing.

andrekandre 4y ago

> bad news for the growth based human world if thats true, why would an investor even contemplate investing into anything? can capitalism even function without population growth?

actually_a_dog 4y ago
Good point. Maybe we should stop doing capitalism and do something that's going to be sustainable for the long run.
- NovaDudely 4y ago
  We need to refocus our goals. Not on just endless consumption, the idea that the one that can consume the most cheap junk is the winner. But to focus on genuine happiness. This means a focus back onto community and doing things not just for ourselves but for others - in a physical sense as well.
NovaDudely 4y ago
There is the idea of capitalism as a free trade between people to optimize towards a certain goal, there might be a future in that. And then there is the Capitalism of today that is entirely focused on the capital part - I don't think that will have long legs. The era of consistent returns on investments is probably going to fade over the coming decades. 3% interest year over year compounding - that will be a thing of the past. This is why the biggest revolution that gives us a chance will be the hardest one. The first act of revolution is contemplation. As Tolstoy said "We all want to change the world but we do not want to change ourselves". The time will come when we need to change ourselves. To not only make the Solar-punk future but the Dharma-punk future. We need L.E.S.S. Less Energy, Stuff & Stimulation. Use less, do less, be more.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  > We need L.E.S.S. Less Energy, Stuff & Stimulation. Use less, do less, be more. that sounds interesting, but how would you get shareholders to back such an idea? (sorry if this sounds contrarian, im just curious what ideas people have about this)
  - NovaDudely 4y ago
    It isn't contrarian, it is the hard questions that need to be asked. The current mind set of shareholders is incompatible with this. Shareholding/"investment" nowadays is merely gambling with extra steps. This is not always a bad thing, in that, one can invest/gamble on a business that can grow into something that benefits many people. The mindset change is that you invest to make better companies, not just to make more money. Invest in companies that make products that don't have planned obsolescence, that aren't hyper focused on just getting 5% profit growth next quarter etc. Or just trying to time the market so they can extract money from the greater fools. It would be an legitimate investment into business that would make the world a better place. Side note - The mind set of shareholding is very weird when you look at it. I remember back in about 2003/4 reading about the latest quarters reports on tech. Apples shares had dropped on the back of profit being about 5% lower than expected - they still made hundred of millions that quarter but because they missed expectation the shares dropped. AMD shares that quarter went up - why? Because while they took a lose, it wasn't as much as expected. But it will still a loss... the markets are a weird thing!
thefz 4y ago
> can capitalism even function without population growth? I wonder what is the expectation here. Cover every square meter of the earth with humans, or just squeeze more and more in the same places? What about resources like food, power... ?