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US: Hey Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian NG/Oil (buy ours instead) Germany: We're ok, thank you for your concern Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going

by cronix 4y ago

US: Hey Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian NG/Oil (buy ours instead) Germany: We're ok, thank you for your concern Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going through pipelines to Germany US: Let's just make that permanent. Germany doesn't know what's good for itself. Boom. Hey Germany, now that you can't get it from Russia, would you like to buy some of ours? We've been telling you, ahem, warning you, for years, friend.

lazide 4y ago
Everything in international politics (and many other things) is about leverage, power, etc. Allies are just those with interests that align closely enough that destroying each other would hurt everyone more than it’s worth. Doesn’t stop the manipulation.
dralley 4y ago
US, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia: Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian gas/oil while they are actively invading their neighbors, shooting down airliners, blowing up ammunition depots and using nerve agents on NATO territory. Germany, France: ...
- vkou 4y ago
  "You're making the wrong decision, so we're going to 'help' by make the decision for you" is how you treat subjects and vassals, not peer nations and allies. Don't spin it like it was a favour. Imagine the reaction if, say, the Saudis, or China blew up the Keystone pipeline... Because the US is making the wrong decision of being reliant on the wrong source of foreign oil. Regardless of the merits of their argument, it's not their pipeline, it's not their call to make.
  - def_true_false 4y ago
    1. Why are you taking Russian disinfo at face value? 2. Others were affected by the construction of the pipeline, yet their concerns were brushed aside with nothing better than hand waving and a load of Wandel durch Handel rubbish. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone east of Germany should care one bit about what German anti-NATO boomers think. To make it crystal clear, national security of Eastern European allies is not something for Germany to trade away -- it never was. We will have our security, if it comes to that, at the cost of German jobs. Not that Germany needs much help with that, what with the genius level planning that went into the Energiewende and all that. As far as I can tell this opinion is not uncommon, outside of the German speaking bubble.
cudgy 4y ago
Also in this discourse: Germany: Hey, Russia, supplier of our energy, screw you for feeling threatened by NATO countries (like us) and US interfering with a huge neighboring country. Hope your not offended by the Leopard tanks and artillery we just sent to kill your soldiers. Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going through pipelines to Germany

by cronix 4y ago

lazide 4y ago

Everything in international politics (and many other things) is about leverage, power, etc. Allies are just those with interests that align closely enough that destroying each other would hurt everyone more than it’s worth. Doesn’t stop the manipulation.

dralley 4y ago

US, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia: Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian gas/oil while they are actively invading their neighbors, shooting down airliners, blowing up ammunition depots and using nerve agents on NATO territory. Germany, France: ...

vkou 4y ago
"You're making the wrong decision, so we're going to 'help' by make the decision for you" is how you treat subjects and vassals, not peer nations and allies. Don't spin it like it was a favour. Imagine the reaction if, say, the Saudis, or China blew up the Keystone pipeline... Because the US is making the wrong decision of being reliant on the wrong source of foreign oil. Regardless of the merits of their argument, it's not their pipeline, it's not their call to make.
- def_true_false 4y ago
  1. Why are you taking Russian disinfo at face value? 2. Others were affected by the construction of the pipeline, yet their concerns were brushed aside with nothing better than hand waving and a load of Wandel durch Handel rubbish. To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone east of Germany should care one bit about what German anti-NATO boomers think. To make it crystal clear, national security of Eastern European allies is not something for Germany to trade away -- it never was. We will have our security, if it comes to that, at the cost of German jobs. Not that Germany needs much help with that, what with the genius level planning that went into the Energiewende and all that. As far as I can tell this opinion is not uncommon, outside of the German speaking bubble.

cudgy 4y ago

Also in this discourse: Germany: Hey, Russia, supplier of our energy, screw you for feeling threatened by NATO countries (like us) and US interfering with a huge neighboring country. Hope your not offended by the Leopard tanks and artillery we just sent to kill your soldiers. Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going through pipelines to Germany