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The Germans are losing their industry because someone blew up a pipeline. who knows, maybe it has something to do with that?

B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
Worse than that, they were roping in Russia - more successfully than in the past eight centuries - and those economic ties were blown worse than the pipeline.
- dralley 4y ago
  Those economic ties were broken the moment Russia started threatening to cut off the gas unless Germany did what they wanted, which took about 3 days and escalated over the next several months. It has been transparently clear for a decade that Germany was the one being "roped" by Russia, not the one "roping" Russia.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Germanys problem is clearly that they noticed and said no! (/s) Sorry, just getting out of the influence of someone similar. It’s a hit too painful.
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  Putin has been invading his neighbours since 2008 and finally launched a full scale war. How would you say that is “roping in Russia”?
  - B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
    Some people think so, looking at the raw geopolitics instead of the news fodder - e.g. in 2015: "So, the primordial interest of the United States over which for centuries we have fought wars, the first, second and cold war has been the relationship between Germany and Russia. Because united they are the only force that could threaten us, and to make sure that that doesn’t happen." https://uaposition.com/stratfor-founder-and-ceo-george-friedman-about-europe-ukraine-and-us-military-power/ https://uaposition.com/stratfor-founder-and-ceo-george-fried...
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      This is a rather outlandish theory IMO and it also doesn’t answer the question I posed.
dralley 4y ago
The Germans made a series of bad decisions despite being warned for years by not just the US, but also half their neighbors, and basic common sense. At the point the pipeline was blown up, Russia had already essentially cut off the flow with their "oh dear, the turbine seems to be malfunctioning" antics.
- cronix 4y ago
  US: Hey Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian NG/Oil (buy ours instead) Germany: We're ok, thank you for your concern Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going through pipelines to Germany US: Let's just make that permanent. Germany doesn't know what's good for itself. Boom. Hey Germany, now that you can't get it from Russia, would you like to buy some of ours? We've been telling you, ahem, warning you, for years, friend.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Everything in international politics (and many other things) is about leverage, power, etc. Allies are just those with interests that align closely enough that destroying each other would hurt everyone more than it’s worth. Doesn’t stop the manipulation.
  - dralley 4y ago
    US, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia: Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian gas/oil while they are actively invading their neighbors, shooting down airliners, blowing up ammunition depots and using nerve agents on NATO territory. Germany, France: ...
    - vkou 4y ago
      "You're making the wrong decision, so we're going to 'help' by make the decision for you" is how you treat subjects and vassals, not peer nations and allies. Don't spin it like it was a favour. Imagine the reaction if, say, the Saudis, or China blew up the Keystone pipeline... Because the US is making the wrong decision of being reliant on the wrong source of foreign oil. Regardless of the merits of their argument, it's not their pipeline, it's not their call to make.
vkou 4y ago
That's conspiracist talk, pipelines blow up by themselves all the time. There is no plausible way that the party that's both eager to export LNG, and has a geopolitical interest in seeing Germany distance itself from Russia (without getting cold feet when the winter starts, and everyone actually gets cold feet) had anything to do with it.
- def_true_false 4y ago
  What's more plausible, that the party that routinely blows up warehouses and murders people on NATO soil did it, or the party that has kept Germany safe for more than 70 years did it? "The average intellectual of the Left believed, for instance, that the war was lost in 1940, that the Germans were bound to overrun Egypt in 1942, that the Japanese would never be driven out of the lands they had conquered, and that the Anglo-American bombing offensive was making no impression on Germany. He could believe these things because his hatred for the British ruling class forbade him to admit that British plans could succeed. There is no limit to the follies that can be swallowed if one is under the influence of feelings of this kind. I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution. One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool. " -- George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism (1945) https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...
cpursley 4y ago
When the US says jump, Germany asks: how high?
hsjqllzlfkf 4y ago
I'm an European person and generally mildly suspicious of American govs intentions. Nevertheless, in this case I do hope they blew up the pipeline, because Germany lack of action towards Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an absolute stain for Europe.

B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago

Worse than that, they were roping in Russia - more successfully than in the past eight centuries - and those economic ties were blown worse than the pipeline.

dralley 4y ago
Those economic ties were broken the moment Russia started threatening to cut off the gas unless Germany did what they wanted, which took about 3 days and escalated over the next several months. It has been transparently clear for a decade that Germany was the one being "roped" by Russia, not the one "roping" Russia.
- lazide 4y ago
  Germanys problem is clearly that they noticed and said no! (/s) Sorry, just getting out of the influence of someone similar. It’s a hit too painful.
Swenrekcah 4y ago
Putin has been invading his neighbours since 2008 and finally launched a full scale war. How would you say that is “roping in Russia”?
- B1FF_PSUVM 4y ago
  Some people think so, looking at the raw geopolitics instead of the news fodder - e.g. in 2015: "So, the primordial interest of the United States over which for centuries we have fought wars, the first, second and cold war has been the relationship between Germany and Russia. Because united they are the only force that could threaten us, and to make sure that that doesn’t happen." https://uaposition.com/stratfor-founder-and-ceo-george-friedman-about-europe-ukraine-and-us-military-power/ https://uaposition.com/stratfor-founder-and-ceo-george-fried...
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    This is a rather outlandish theory IMO and it also doesn’t answer the question I posed.

dralley 4y ago

The Germans made a series of bad decisions despite being warned for years by not just the US, but also half their neighbors, and basic common sense. At the point the pipeline was blown up, Russia had already essentially cut off the flow with their "oh dear, the turbine seems to be malfunctioning" antics.

cronix 4y ago
US: Hey Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian NG/Oil (buy ours instead) Germany: We're ok, thank you for your concern Russia: cuts back NG/Oil going through pipelines to Germany US: Let's just make that permanent. Germany doesn't know what's good for itself. Boom. Hey Germany, now that you can't get it from Russia, would you like to buy some of ours? We've been telling you, ahem, warning you, for years, friend.
- lazide 4y ago
  Everything in international politics (and many other things) is about leverage, power, etc. Allies are just those with interests that align closely enough that destroying each other would hurt everyone more than it’s worth. Doesn’t stop the manipulation.
- dralley 4y ago
  US, UK, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia: Germany, you shouldn't be so reliant on Russian gas/oil while they are actively invading their neighbors, shooting down airliners, blowing up ammunition depots and using nerve agents on NATO territory. Germany, France: ...
  - vkou 4y ago
    "You're making the wrong decision, so we're going to 'help' by make the decision for you" is how you treat subjects and vassals, not peer nations and allies. Don't spin it like it was a favour. Imagine the reaction if, say, the Saudis, or China blew up the Keystone pipeline... Because the US is making the wrong decision of being reliant on the wrong source of foreign oil. Regardless of the merits of their argument, it's not their pipeline, it's not their call to make.

vkou 4y ago

That's conspiracist talk, pipelines blow up by themselves all the time. There is no plausible way that the party that's both eager to export LNG, and has a geopolitical interest in seeing Germany distance itself from Russia (without getting cold feet when the winter starts, and everyone actually gets cold feet) had anything to do with it.

def_true_false 4y ago
What's more plausible, that the party that routinely blows up warehouses and murders people on NATO soil did it, or the party that has kept Germany safe for more than 70 years did it? "The average intellectual of the Left believed, for instance, that the war was lost in 1940, that the Germans were bound to overrun Egypt in 1942, that the Japanese would never be driven out of the lands they had conquered, and that the Anglo-American bombing offensive was making no impression on Germany. He could believe these things because his hatred for the British ruling class forbade him to admit that British plans could succeed. There is no limit to the follies that can be swallowed if one is under the influence of feelings of this kind. I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution. One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool. " -- George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism (1945) https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

cpursley 4y ago

When the US says jump, Germany asks: how high?

hsjqllzlfkf 4y ago

I'm an European person and generally mildly suspicious of American govs intentions. Nevertheless, in this case I do hope they blew up the pipeline, because Germany lack of action towards Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an absolute stain for Europe.