5 ms·

> wing how a computer works. I legit have to ask FizzBuzz What leads you to believe that fizzbuzz is a relevant litmus test for competent software developers?

BurningFrog 4y ago
It's not for that. It weeds out people who can't write code at all. Yes, tons of them do apply for dev jobs.
- harvey9 4y ago
  Weeds out people who didn't memorize an answer to a well known test. But it's more efficient to discuss a real world code problem as this allows you to weed out people who can't solve problems or code either.
  - throwaway675309 4y ago
    For Christ sake. There was never any need to memorize fizz buzz, that's the whole point of the damn question. It tests an applicants basic math and logic capabilities (in this case modulo and for loops).
    - simplotek 4y ago
      > For Christ sake. There was never any need to memorize fizz buzz, Wrong. Fizzbuzz is the epitome of a hiring test that is gamed by rote learning and adds absolutely nothing in terms of decisive info on wether s candidate is competent or not. Your argument is like arguing in favour of using hello word in as many languages as possible and then claim that there is no need to memorize them because that's the point of the question.
      - ajmurmann 4y ago
        I have big issues with impractical interview questions that favor interview prep over actually practical skills. That said, anyone who can program should be able to implement fizz buzz in 10-15 minutes given a description of the problem even if they had never heard of it.
        inconceivable 4y ago
        hmm interesting... i haven't done a technical interview in 15 years so i just tried fizzbuzz (leetcode was the first thing that popped up on google)... took me about 15 minutes. i was caught a bit off guard, there are a couple of little subtle gotchas that require some actual thought. i'd say it's a pretty good test without requiring knowledge of data structures or CS level algorithms. that said i would only want to do it on a terminal, not on a whiteboard. i'd probably fuck that up somehow.
      - leoedin 4y ago
        FizzBuzz exactly as printed in an example? An easily game-able memorization problem. The concept of FizzBuzz? If you are a programmer you should be able to write a simple program with arithmetic and string manipulation. There's no reason an interviewer needs to ask exactly the FizzBuzz - but just something a bit like it. Asking the exact question from the blog is pretty lazy anyway.
  - slt2021 4y ago
    if you need to memorize fizbuzz answer - I have a very very bad news for you
    - harvey9 4y ago
      If you need to use it to test candidates, bad news is you can't tell rote memorizers from problem solvers.
      - bombolo 4y ago
        Then you say "but let's do buzzfizz instead" and let the memorizers start crying?
        harvey9 4y ago
        Or just pose a real world problem? Like every technical interview I've ever had. Giving me a problem from a catalogue is letting me know you're boring - I'll be polite but I won't accept your offer.
        slt2021 4y ago
        you wont accept, but there will be a line of thousand+ fresh college graduates and H1Bs behind you, all willing to grind leetcode and accept 200k+ offer
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    "Weeds out people who didn't memorize an answer to a well known test." For the love of god, please Google what fizzbuzz is. People who need to memorize a solution to that have no business coding.
    - simplotek 4y ago
      > For the love of god, please Google what fizzbuzz is. Yes, please do google what fizzbuzz is. You'll eventually stumble upon resources on how to memorize fizzbuzz, which is such a Hallmark of the test that it's even explicitly mentioned in the C2 wiki on fizzbuzz.
    - harvey9 4y ago
      The test can't tell if you can think through a problem or just googled technical interview common questions and memorized some answers: Crammers can pass as easily as problem solvers can.
- maldev 4y ago
  Exactly, I started doing it since I know if they can do literally 5 lines of super basic code. It should take 30 seconds. Why would I ask someone to write kernel code or other domain topics if they can't write fizzbuzz??? The replies to your comment are exactly what I meant lol.
silisili 4y ago
I think it's an extremely low bar to make sure a person even understands how to program. This isn't reversing a tree, or graph searching. Fizzbuzz basically just tests you know how to use a conditional, do division/mod, and print to console. I'd argue someone who cannot do those three things has no business applying for a dev job, regardless of how many times one actually needs to fizzbuzz in 'the real world.'
- simplotek 4y ago
  > Fizzbuzz basically just tests you know how to use a conditional, do division/mod, and print to console. No, fizzbuzz test rote learning and it mainly serves to game the hiring system.

BurningFrog 4y ago

It's not for that. It weeds out people who can't write code at all. Yes, tons of them do apply for dev jobs.

harvey9 4y ago
Weeds out people who didn't memorize an answer to a well known test. But it's more efficient to discuss a real world code problem as this allows you to weed out people who can't solve problems or code either.
- throwaway675309 4y ago
  For Christ sake. There was never any need to memorize fizz buzz, that's the whole point of the damn question. It tests an applicants basic math and logic capabilities (in this case modulo and for loops).
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > For Christ sake. There was never any need to memorize fizz buzz, Wrong. Fizzbuzz is the epitome of a hiring test that is gamed by rote learning and adds absolutely nothing in terms of decisive info on wether s candidate is competent or not. Your argument is like arguing in favour of using hello word in as many languages as possible and then claim that there is no need to memorize them because that's the point of the question.
    - ajmurmann 4y ago
      I have big issues with impractical interview questions that favor interview prep over actually practical skills. That said, anyone who can program should be able to implement fizz buzz in 10-15 minutes given a description of the problem even if they had never heard of it.
      - inconceivable 4y ago
        hmm interesting... i haven't done a technical interview in 15 years so i just tried fizzbuzz (leetcode was the first thing that popped up on google)... took me about 15 minutes. i was caught a bit off guard, there are a couple of little subtle gotchas that require some actual thought. i'd say it's a pretty good test without requiring knowledge of data structures or CS level algorithms. that said i would only want to do it on a terminal, not on a whiteboard. i'd probably fuck that up somehow.
    - leoedin 4y ago
      FizzBuzz exactly as printed in an example? An easily game-able memorization problem. The concept of FizzBuzz? If you are a programmer you should be able to write a simple program with arithmetic and string manipulation. There's no reason an interviewer needs to ask exactly the FizzBuzz - but just something a bit like it. Asking the exact question from the blog is pretty lazy anyway.
- slt2021 4y ago
  if you need to memorize fizbuzz answer - I have a very very bad news for you
  - harvey9 4y ago
    If you need to use it to test candidates, bad news is you can't tell rote memorizers from problem solvers.
    - bombolo 4y ago
      Then you say "but let's do buzzfizz instead" and let the memorizers start crying?
      - harvey9 4y ago
        Or just pose a real world problem? Like every technical interview I've ever had. Giving me a problem from a catalogue is letting me know you're boring - I'll be polite but I won't accept your offer.
        slt2021 4y ago
        you wont accept, but there will be a line of thousand+ fresh college graduates and H1Bs behind you, all willing to grind leetcode and accept 200k+ offer
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  "Weeds out people who didn't memorize an answer to a well known test." For the love of god, please Google what fizzbuzz is. People who need to memorize a solution to that have no business coding.
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > For the love of god, please Google what fizzbuzz is. Yes, please do google what fizzbuzz is. You'll eventually stumble upon resources on how to memorize fizzbuzz, which is such a Hallmark of the test that it's even explicitly mentioned in the C2 wiki on fizzbuzz.
  - harvey9 4y ago
    The test can't tell if you can think through a problem or just googled technical interview common questions and memorized some answers: Crammers can pass as easily as problem solvers can.
maldev 4y ago
Exactly, I started doing it since I know if they can do literally 5 lines of super basic code. It should take 30 seconds. Why would I ask someone to write kernel code or other domain topics if they can't write fizzbuzz??? The replies to your comment are exactly what I meant lol.

silisili 4y ago

I think it's an extremely low bar to make sure a person even understands how to program. This isn't reversing a tree, or graph searching. Fizzbuzz basically just tests you know how to use a conditional, do division/mod, and print to console. I'd argue someone who cannot do those three things has no business applying for a dev job, regardless of how many times one actually needs to fizzbuzz in 'the real world.'

simplotek 4y ago
> Fizzbuzz basically just tests you know how to use a conditional, do division/mod, and print to console. No, fizzbuzz test rote learning and it mainly serves to game the hiring system.