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Canada Is About To Pass Sopa’s Evil Little Brother. Politely

148 points by DanielRibeiro 15y ago

moizsyed 15y ago
What can Canadians learn from their American cousins to stop this bill?
- SquareWheel 15y ago
  As a Canadian, I also fought against SOPA and PIPA. I brought down my site and attempted to raise awareness to all I knew. This bill is no different. We should fight not for just our own countries, but for a free and open internet.
dreur 15y ago
Speakout at http://www.ccer.ca/speakout/ http://www.ccer.ca/speakout/ Send a letter to your representative at Ottawa.
- canadiancreed 15y ago
  Already done. Sadly as they're a non-Conservative MP, I expect it to have as much of an effect as screaming into the wind. The joys of your MP being on the wrong side of a majority.
extension 15y ago
Is there a better source of analysis on this bill? The summary posted here does not seem to be nearly as bad as this blog is making it out to be: http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/c11-e.pdf http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/... For example, phone unlocking is explicitly permitted, according to that summary and contrary to the blog. The linked Michael Geist post says that lobby groups are pushing for scarier things, but not that they are already in the bill.
- icegreentea 15y ago
  Don't think the blog said phone unlocking is not permitted. But really, what's going on is Canadians having absolutely no confidence in our government not caving into pressure with regards to copyright laws, both from entertainment industry (foreign and domestic), as well as the American government. And we do so cause we have absolutely no reason to have confidence in them. So when we hear that industry wants X, Y and Z added, and oh ho, there happens to be some rumblings of American government pressure, we just assume the worse (and I really think we should), and flip our shit. The C-11 as is really just the same copyright reform act that died the last few times as elections rolled around. As is, it contains some needed reform, and overall, if not for the absolutely forbidden nature of removing DRM, wouldn't actually be that bad. But we're easily startled now. And so it is.
  - prophetjohn 15y ago
    > Don't think the blog said phone unlocking is not permitted. > Hey, do you want to be able to unlock your $500 smartphone and take it to a provider less dedicated to violating your wallet? That won’t be allowed either. So unless the author means that the joint action of unlocking and then taking it to another provider is prohibited, or just taking it to another provider is prohibited, but the author threw in unlocking because it is likely to accompany it, I think the blog is stating that unlocking a smartphone is not permitted.
  - unreal37 15y ago
    I'm a Canadian too, and even reading Michael Geist's blog, this bill doesn't sound scary. Canada has always had more liberal copyright laws than the US, and I expect that to continue. You don't hear about a Canadian being sued for $20 million for downloading a few songs on Limewire. The success of the SOPA protests is both a blessing and a curse. I'm starting to notice a trend. Every day/week we're going to have to read about something being "the next SOPA".
    - canadiancreed 15y ago
      "Canada has always had more liberal copyright laws than the US, and I expect that to continue. You don't hear about a Canadian being sued for $20 million for downloading a few songs on Limewire." Your'e far more trusting of this current government then I. It would fit into their message on "getting tough on crime" to have more restrictions on technology, to the point of having many actions that we take for granted now being outlawed. I get the tagging of every little thing being "the next SOPA" is diluting the message, and agree with your point, but from the current governments track record, I wouldn't trust them on this line of legislation as far as I could throw them. Especially as this isn't the first time they've tried to pass such legislation.
teilo 15y ago
Given Canada's record on freedom of speech in general, I imagine this is far more likely to pass than the American bill.
click170 15y ago
I feel like a big part of the reason this will pass in Canada is because they don't have as many large tech companies vocally opposed to said bill.
- Tiktaalik 15y ago
  Another very significant reason is that in Canada party discipline for Members of Parliament is heavily enforced. In a majority government situation (as is the current case) it can have the affect that if the Prime Minister wants the legislation passed then all party members will be instructed to vote for it and it will pass. An MP disobeying the party is a controversial event. In the USA we saw support for SOPA/PIPA drain away as individual members of the house/senate abandoned support, but I feel that that situation is less likely to happen in Canada.
  - michaelvanham 15y ago
    The voting history of MPs in Canada is available in an easy to use format at http://openparliament.ca/bills/votes/41-1/ http://openparliament.ca/bills/votes/41-1/ Most of the votes have the Conservative majority solidly on one side and everyone else on the other. It's nearly impossible to stop or alter legislation that Mr. Harper wants passed.
  - sunir 15y ago
    They still take bills to committee for review and amendment in a relatively functional process. Further, the bill has to undergo review by the Senate before it is passed. You can write your Senator and the Senate committee to reconsider the egregious clauses.
  - reidmain 15y ago
    I think this is the single greatest problem with Canadian politics. So many voters now don't even know who they are voting for. They simply walk into the polling station and check the name beside the party they want to represent them. The concept of a MP is almost pointless because they are usually not representing their constituents. For controversial issues like C-11, ACTA, etc all party members are usually forced to vote a certain way when these issues are the ones were disent is actually the best possible thing for a truly democratic society. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you didn't identify the party the candidate was associated with on the ballet and no one at the polling station was allowed to provide this information. Would people vote less? Would they actually learn about the candidates more?
mattieuga 15y ago
We might be a tenth of your population America, but we were up in arms about SOPA! Please help us out of this mess, we don't have a Google or Wikipedia to go dark for us. We need all the help we can get...
grannyg00se 15y ago
The thing is "they" can always bring up a bill like this. It's not possible to continually fight this kind of nonsense. I wonder if there is legitimate strategy to simply letting the most heinous version pass. That way when it is fought in court it will be more difficult to defend. And then precedent will be set and future bills will be less likely to pass or be supported.
canadiancreed 15y ago
When the SOPA fury was going on in the states, I was talking to some friends of mine saying that it'd be a great business idea to promote Canada as a technology haven, not having a patriot act or SOPA at all. Forgot that our government seems to pick up failed ideas form other places and think they're golden.
alan_cx 15y ago
Im beginning believe that the only way this worldwide tide of destructive legislation will be defeated is by letting these laws happen and letting them discredit themselves, to be hopefully repealed at a later date, once it is clear enough people have suffered. Looks like defeating US SOPA was the easy bit, and SOPA supporters knew it. What does the US need SOPA for if every one else implements it? What is pretty sad is that the world community supported the anti US SOPA movement, but no big players in the US want to support all those other countries who supported them. Where are google and wikipedia on the upcoming EU laws, for example? Will they black out European or Canadian users for 24hrs? Well, if each threatened country does not get world community support and implements its version of SOPA, then its was all for nothing. Cant help but think that 2012 will be an Armageddon of sorts after all. A virtual one.
sunir 15y ago
Having read fully the exceptionally well written legislative summary, http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/c11-e.pdf http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/... I see now that they have made it illegal to break a digital lock ("technical protection measure") in all circumstances because of the WIPO Internet treaties. A previous version of bill made it only illegal to break a digital lock to facilitate an infringement, which is a reasonable balance in my opinion. I'm not convinced of the argument that the WIPO Internet treaties a) matter that much, b) say that. The technical measures are only to protect a copyright holders "rights", but if the copyright law of the land does not recognize a right where such right limits fair dealing (which is identified in the WIPO treaties), then there are no such rights to protect in the first place, and therefore the technical measures clauses don't have standing. Therefore, reverting to Bill C-60 would be the right thing to do. Now to draft a letter to my MP and Senator.
martythemaniak 15y ago
And of course, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it, because "Canadians voted for a strong, stable conservative majority in tough economic times", or whatever horseshit Harper's minions are spewing these days.

148 points by DanielRibeiro 15y ago

moizsyed 15y ago

What can Canadians learn from their American cousins to stop this bill?

SquareWheel 15y ago
As a Canadian, I also fought against SOPA and PIPA. I brought down my site and attempted to raise awareness to all I knew. This bill is no different. We should fight not for just our own countries, but for a free and open internet.

dreur 15y ago

Speakout at http://www.ccer.ca/speakout/ http://www.ccer.ca/speakout/ Send a letter to your representative at Ottawa.

canadiancreed 15y ago
Already done. Sadly as they're a non-Conservative MP, I expect it to have as much of an effect as screaming into the wind. The joys of your MP being on the wrong side of a majority.

extension 15y ago

Is there a better source of analysis on this bill? The summary posted here does not seem to be nearly as bad as this blog is making it out to be: http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/c11-e.pdf http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/... For example, phone unlocking is explicitly permitted, according to that summary and contrary to the blog. The linked Michael Geist post says that lobby groups are pushing for scarier things, but not that they are already in the bill.

icegreentea 15y ago
Don't think the blog said phone unlocking is not permitted. But really, what's going on is Canadians having absolutely no confidence in our government not caving into pressure with regards to copyright laws, both from entertainment industry (foreign and domestic), as well as the American government. And we do so cause we have absolutely no reason to have confidence in them. So when we hear that industry wants X, Y and Z added, and oh ho, there happens to be some rumblings of American government pressure, we just assume the worse (and I really think we should), and flip our shit. The C-11 as is really just the same copyright reform act that died the last few times as elections rolled around. As is, it contains some needed reform, and overall, if not for the absolutely forbidden nature of removing DRM, wouldn't actually be that bad. But we're easily startled now. And so it is.
- prophetjohn 15y ago
  > Don't think the blog said phone unlocking is not permitted. > Hey, do you want to be able to unlock your $500 smartphone and take it to a provider less dedicated to violating your wallet? That won’t be allowed either. So unless the author means that the joint action of unlocking and then taking it to another provider is prohibited, or just taking it to another provider is prohibited, but the author threw in unlocking because it is likely to accompany it, I think the blog is stating that unlocking a smartphone is not permitted.
- unreal37 15y ago
  I'm a Canadian too, and even reading Michael Geist's blog, this bill doesn't sound scary. Canada has always had more liberal copyright laws than the US, and I expect that to continue. You don't hear about a Canadian being sued for $20 million for downloading a few songs on Limewire. The success of the SOPA protests is both a blessing and a curse. I'm starting to notice a trend. Every day/week we're going to have to read about something being "the next SOPA".
  - canadiancreed 15y ago
    "Canada has always had more liberal copyright laws than the US, and I expect that to continue. You don't hear about a Canadian being sued for $20 million for downloading a few songs on Limewire." Your'e far more trusting of this current government then I. It would fit into their message on "getting tough on crime" to have more restrictions on technology, to the point of having many actions that we take for granted now being outlawed. I get the tagging of every little thing being "the next SOPA" is diluting the message, and agree with your point, but from the current governments track record, I wouldn't trust them on this line of legislation as far as I could throw them. Especially as this isn't the first time they've tried to pass such legislation.

teilo 15y ago

Given Canada's record on freedom of speech in general, I imagine this is far more likely to pass than the American bill.

click170 15y ago

I feel like a big part of the reason this will pass in Canada is because they don't have as many large tech companies vocally opposed to said bill.

Tiktaalik 15y ago
Another very significant reason is that in Canada party discipline for Members of Parliament is heavily enforced. In a majority government situation (as is the current case) it can have the affect that if the Prime Minister wants the legislation passed then all party members will be instructed to vote for it and it will pass. An MP disobeying the party is a controversial event. In the USA we saw support for SOPA/PIPA drain away as individual members of the house/senate abandoned support, but I feel that that situation is less likely to happen in Canada.
- michaelvanham 15y ago
  The voting history of MPs in Canada is available in an easy to use format at http://openparliament.ca/bills/votes/41-1/ http://openparliament.ca/bills/votes/41-1/ Most of the votes have the Conservative majority solidly on one side and everyone else on the other. It's nearly impossible to stop or alter legislation that Mr. Harper wants passed.
- sunir 15y ago
  They still take bills to committee for review and amendment in a relatively functional process. Further, the bill has to undergo review by the Senate before it is passed. You can write your Senator and the Senate committee to reconsider the egregious clauses.
- reidmain 15y ago
  I think this is the single greatest problem with Canadian politics. So many voters now don't even know who they are voting for. They simply walk into the polling station and check the name beside the party they want to represent them. The concept of a MP is almost pointless because they are usually not representing their constituents. For controversial issues like C-11, ACTA, etc all party members are usually forced to vote a certain way when these issues are the ones were disent is actually the best possible thing for a truly democratic society. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you didn't identify the party the candidate was associated with on the ballet and no one at the polling station was allowed to provide this information. Would people vote less? Would they actually learn about the candidates more?

mattieuga 15y ago

We might be a tenth of your population America, but we were up in arms about SOPA! Please help us out of this mess, we don't have a Google or Wikipedia to go dark for us. We need all the help we can get...

grannyg00se 15y ago

The thing is "they" can always bring up a bill like this. It's not possible to continually fight this kind of nonsense. I wonder if there is legitimate strategy to simply letting the most heinous version pass. That way when it is fought in court it will be more difficult to defend. And then precedent will be set and future bills will be less likely to pass or be supported.

canadiancreed 15y ago

When the SOPA fury was going on in the states, I was talking to some friends of mine saying that it'd be a great business idea to promote Canada as a technology haven, not having a patriot act or SOPA at all. Forgot that our government seems to pick up failed ideas form other places and think they're golden.

alan_cx 15y ago

Im beginning believe that the only way this worldwide tide of destructive legislation will be defeated is by letting these laws happen and letting them discredit themselves, to be hopefully repealed at a later date, once it is clear enough people have suffered. Looks like defeating US SOPA was the easy bit, and SOPA supporters knew it. What does the US need SOPA for if every one else implements it? What is pretty sad is that the world community supported the anti US SOPA movement, but no big players in the US want to support all those other countries who supported them. Where are google and wikipedia on the upcoming EU laws, for example? Will they black out European or Canadian users for 24hrs? Well, if each threatened country does not get world community support and implements its version of SOPA, then its was all for nothing. Cant help but think that 2012 will be an Armageddon of sorts after all. A virtual one.

sunir 15y ago

Having read fully the exceptionally well written legislative summary, http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/c11-e.pdf http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/LegislativeSummaries/41/1/... I see now that they have made it illegal to break a digital lock ("technical protection measure") in all circumstances because of the WIPO Internet treaties. A previous version of bill made it only illegal to break a digital lock to facilitate an infringement, which is a reasonable balance in my opinion. I'm not convinced of the argument that the WIPO Internet treaties a) matter that much, b) say that. The technical measures are only to protect a copyright holders "rights", but if the copyright law of the land does not recognize a right where such right limits fair dealing (which is identified in the WIPO treaties), then there are no such rights to protect in the first place, and therefore the technical measures clauses don't have standing. Therefore, reverting to Bill C-60 would be the right thing to do. Now to draft a letter to my MP and Senator.

martythemaniak 15y ago

And of course, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it, because "Canadians voted for a strong, stable conservative majority in tough economic times", or whatever horseshit Harper's minions are spewing these days.