5 ms·

One direction into resolving this, which may seem counter intuitive, is to put more money into police training, and have higher salaries for desired positions.

One direction into resolving this, which may seem counter intuitive, is to put more money into police training, and have higher salaries for desired positions. This in turn (should) attract more people and thus get a better pool to select candidates from. However the nepotism and in-group mentality does make this difficult to another degree. Though to play devils advocate, it’s human nature to pull more into an in-group when you feel anyone outside that group is attacking you, and threatening your livelihood for the actions of others. We should condemn the officers that act wrongly, but calling all of them bastards and such just makes the problem far worse. Now there’s even greater incentive for police officers to stand with their own, and not call out inappropriate behavior. Further, now people don’t want to be police officers, making the talent pool very low. And I don’t blame anyone for that. I had a desire to also be an officer at one point, but if I were a kid today, I’d steer clear of it even if I wanted to do more good.

KptMarchewa 4y ago
The problem with any solution in US is focus on hyperlocal policing. US, even if it has private medicine, has tons of regulations around it - like requirement to have regulated medical degree to practice medicine. For some reason it's impossible to pass law that police needs to have some regulated degree to practice policing.
- kevviiinn 4y ago
  Police unions are generally the reason it's impossible to pass any sort of reform laws, they easily strongarm politicians and spread copaganda
avgDev 4y ago
Cops at the police department I was talking about make around $100K+ with overtime. This is a pretty popular around many departments. Salaries are $60k but cops get a lot of overtime. It isn't a problem that can be solved with money.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  I'd argue that the salaries would be well-deserved if the police were in general better at their jobs, or at least weren't obviously abusive and corrupt in pretty much every jurisdiction.
- majormajor 4y ago
  I don't think 100k is such a magic number anymore that you couldn't find takers for "Make more, without needing the overtime, but get fired more easily if you fuck up". Break things up so you do simple shit that doesn't need to carry a gun for today's pay, have big responsibility but also big rewards if you do the hard shit. Look how few people in this discussion are saying "oh man that's so much money for that job, I'm gonna quit my job and become a cop." Want top-tier people? Then you have to compete with other top-tier opportunities. But unfortunately that would really only be easy if you were starting brand new thing from scratch. Much harder with entrenched interests anyway.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    You have to have the money but you also have to have the ability to be top-tier. If everything is set up so that you're doomed to fail, you'll only have failures bothering to apply. In the past this type of thing has usually been solved by creating a new police force under a different name, specific to some aspect that needs work. No idea if it would really help now.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > ...get fired more easily if you fuck up Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cops already cover for each other's illegalities today when the worst punishment they seem to be getting is paid leave. How much more would they do when a job is on the line?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
paws 4y ago
I've heard this argument before, and I think there's a kernel of truth there. Thing is, municipalities+towns+states have already poured significant public money into police earnings, thanks in part to police unions who negotiate generous overtime rules, defined benefit pensions, and even off-duty pay for private security [1]. I think most people would agree that higher education tends to bring higher salaries, but strangely this is exactly backwards with US policing. It seems to me becoming a police officer is a rare way to get comparatively high and stable earnings _without_ earning a degree or putting in the work and time investment associated with other decently paying jobs. Meanwhile, Norway requires police officers to earn a three year bachelor's degree and over the past 12 months the # of police killings is low (I think 1). In the US, it's 1,117 - around 3 a day.[2][3] How would you add a degree or substantial training requirement when the pay is already so high? The status quo in America is a national embarrassment, IMO. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/new-jersey-police-contracts https://www.propublica.org/article/new-jersey-police-contrac... [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

KptMarchewa 4y ago

The problem with any solution in US is focus on hyperlocal policing. US, even if it has private medicine, has tons of regulations around it - like requirement to have regulated medical degree to practice medicine. For some reason it's impossible to pass law that police needs to have some regulated degree to practice policing.

kevviiinn 4y ago
Police unions are generally the reason it's impossible to pass any sort of reform laws, they easily strongarm politicians and spread copaganda

avgDev 4y ago

Cops at the police department I was talking about make around $100K+ with overtime. This is a pretty popular around many departments. Salaries are $60k but cops get a lot of overtime. It isn't a problem that can be solved with money.

nerdponx 4y ago
I'd argue that the salaries would be well-deserved if the police were in general better at their jobs, or at least weren't obviously abusive and corrupt in pretty much every jurisdiction.
majormajor 4y ago
I don't think 100k is such a magic number anymore that you couldn't find takers for "Make more, without needing the overtime, but get fired more easily if you fuck up". Break things up so you do simple shit that doesn't need to carry a gun for today's pay, have big responsibility but also big rewards if you do the hard shit. Look how few people in this discussion are saying "oh man that's so much money for that job, I'm gonna quit my job and become a cop." Want top-tier people? Then you have to compete with other top-tier opportunities. But unfortunately that would really only be easy if you were starting brand new thing from scratch. Much harder with entrenched interests anyway.
- bombcar 4y ago
  You have to have the money but you also have to have the ability to be top-tier. If everything is set up so that you're doomed to fail, you'll only have failures bothering to apply. In the past this type of thing has usually been solved by creating a new police force under a different name, specific to some aspect that needs work. No idea if it would really help now.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > ...get fired more easily if you fuck up Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cops already cover for each other's illegalities today when the worst punishment they seem to be getting is paid leave. How much more would they do when a job is on the line?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

paws 4y ago

I've heard this argument before, and I think there's a kernel of truth there. Thing is, municipalities+towns+states have already poured significant public money into police earnings, thanks in part to police unions who negotiate generous overtime rules, defined benefit pensions, and even off-duty pay for private security [1]. I think most people would agree that higher education tends to bring higher salaries, but strangely this is exactly backwards with US policing. It seems to me becoming a police officer is a rare way to get comparatively high and stable earnings _without_ earning a degree or putting in the work and time investment associated with other decently paying jobs. Meanwhile, Norway requires police officers to earn a three year bachelor's degree and over the past 12 months the # of police killings is low (I think 1). In the US, it's 1,117 - around 3 a day.[2][3] How would you add a degree or substantial training requirement when the pay is already so high? The status quo in America is a national embarrassment, IMO. [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/new-jersey-police-contracts https://www.propublica.org/article/new-jersey-police-contrac... [2] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...